Francois,
Why can't spiritual values be the product of mechanistic forces?
voltaire
JoinedPosts by voltaire
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16
Strong Anthropic Principal or. . .
by ninjaturtle inexplain that away, mr. scientist!.
it has been widely noticed that various physical constants and parameters are just exactly those needed to permit life.
some of these include the strength of gravity, the strength of the strong nuclear force, the density of the universe, etc.. [see, for instance, http://zebu.uoregon.edu/~js/21st_century_science/lectures/lec25.html].
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16
Strong Anthropic Principal or. . .
by ninjaturtle inexplain that away, mr. scientist!.
it has been widely noticed that various physical constants and parameters are just exactly those needed to permit life.
some of these include the strength of gravity, the strength of the strong nuclear force, the density of the universe, etc.. [see, for instance, http://zebu.uoregon.edu/~js/21st_century_science/lectures/lec25.html].
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voltaire
Good point rem! I think the thing is, the real answer is probably so bizarre as to be beyond our understanding or maybe even our imagining. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if life is an accidental by- product of something else. We always have to consider ourselves the center of everything. Not likely!
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16
Strong Anthropic Principal or. . .
by ninjaturtle inexplain that away, mr. scientist!.
it has been widely noticed that various physical constants and parameters are just exactly those needed to permit life.
some of these include the strength of gravity, the strength of the strong nuclear force, the density of the universe, etc.. [see, for instance, http://zebu.uoregon.edu/~js/21st_century_science/lectures/lec25.html].
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voltaire
We have reached the point where God existence can't be resolved. The religious contingents among us have been pushed back into this corner. Almost everything around us can be explained without recourse to the supernatural. These are issues that are probably unresolvable by their very nature(unless there is a God and he wants to talk to us some day...hello out there!!!!)People with a religious commitment will always look for gaps in our understanding and claim that they've found God. In fact, this very phenomena can explained as a function of the ways our brains are wired. There's a great book you can probably find in any big bookstore in the biology section that explains that religious activities actually restrict bloodflow to that part of the brain that causes us to recognize ourselves as a separate entity from the rest of the universe. Chanting and meditation actually can cause one to feel "at one with the universe" or some higher power. I presume that religious belief, in the main, confered a survival advantage to those of our species that possessed it. I'm not sure if that will continue to be the case.
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16
Strong Anthropic Principal or. . .
by ninjaturtle inexplain that away, mr. scientist!.
it has been widely noticed that various physical constants and parameters are just exactly those needed to permit life.
some of these include the strength of gravity, the strength of the strong nuclear force, the density of the universe, etc.. [see, for instance, http://zebu.uoregon.edu/~js/21st_century_science/lectures/lec25.html].
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voltaire
If the universe were just a random event and we got lucky, how would we know? We could never compare notes with all the other potential universes that might have come into existence but didn't. If we are here due to sheer, random forces, this is exactly the position we should expect to find ourselves in, everyone trying to figure out why the hell we're here!
BTW, most scientists agree with the proposition that there's a God who set those paremeters. I believe the percentage of scientists who believe in God is 61%.
BTW#2 This line of questioning in no way undermines the reality of evolution. We can posit a God who set the paremters and lit the fuse, so to speak, but there is still overwhelming evidence for evolution as opposed to special creation.
BTW#3 If there is a God who set those paremeters, we are left wondering why he (she? it?) set in motion a world with so much suffering. Why have 99% of all species become extinct? Why doesn't he (she? it?) communicate with us?
BTW#4 NAH! That'll do.
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20
They Fear Us
by metatron ina few malcontents railing against the evils of the watchtower society.
belittled by shills like henry p and others.
but make no mistake about it, these web sites frighten the gerontocrats that run this sick cult.. why?.
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voltaire
Metatron,
What you say about someone defecting or an unexpectedly successful lawsuit reminds me of big tobacco. They fought for years, but eventually one lawsuit got through. Then came the leaking of internal documents. Once that sort of thing gets started it can quickly get out of control. They are right to be afraid.
It also reminds me of what an Irish terrorist said about the efforts of law enforcment officials to stop attacks on public officials. "They have to be lucky every time, we only have to be lucky once." The efforts to make the WT pay will produce a winning case someday, and then it may snowball out of control.
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28
what does the watchtower teach that is right.
by jerome inso you dont have to say it.
could you please bear with me for a second here.. this organisation cant be all bad even though overall it is.. .
most of you may reluctantly hold the opinion that every thing the watchtower currently teaches isnt all bad so could you please give your honest opinions as to what you think is good about the org.. so what is there that can be said about it and its teachings that is good.. especially about prophecy.
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voltaire
Valis,
I would say that they teach that freedom of religion and conscience, which amount to respect to other's points of view, are admirable. they couldn't survive if the rest of world didn't allow them as much. Of course, they just don't like it when the shoe is on the other foot. This post asks what they teach that is right. It doesn't say they have to apply it themselves.
BTW some of their teachings produce quite contradictory results. Who can deny that they TEACH respect for life? Then they turn around and let their children die because a blood fraction isn't on the approved list! Teaching respect for life is good, too bad they're so screwed up they can't put it into practice when it counts.
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what does the watchtower teach that is right.
by jerome inso you dont have to say it.
could you please bear with me for a second here.. this organisation cant be all bad even though overall it is.. .
most of you may reluctantly hold the opinion that every thing the watchtower currently teaches isnt all bad so could you please give your honest opinions as to what you think is good about the org.. so what is there that can be said about it and its teachings that is good.. especially about prophecy.
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voltaire
Love your wife and kids
be honest
don't kill
don't steal
don't commit adultery
respect others points of view(note that you asked what does the WT "teach", not "practice" that is right.)
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what does the watchtower teach that is wrong.
by jerome inok i know what you are going to say.. so dont say it.
just bare with me here.. i really really need to compile a comprehensive list of doctrines or .
teachings that the watchtower is currently holding that is wrong.. can you try to be objective?.
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voltaire
Special creation
Divine inspiration of the Bible
1914 as year of Christ's enthronement
1918 as year of heavenly resurrection
1922-28 Rutherford's announcements of divine displeasure as described in Revelation.
1935 as year ending heavenly callingThere, that outta get the ball rolling
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READ,READ,READ!-It feels great
by voltaire ini've been reading more lately than i ever have, now that i'm on the chopping block to be df.
(actually for the last 2 months, i've been reading away like mad.
i recommend it as a great way to get perspective on life and jws).
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voltaire
Interesting observations about the WT material. I think that it takes some time in the org. to realize how everything is just repackaged. You can be so impressed by the large volume of books at first, but after you become thoroughly familiar with their body of work you're in a better position to see through it all. By then you've invested years in an illusion, you're family is in. It's not easy to wake up and be honest with yourself at that point.
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24
Bride Price-Getting a Reasonable Price
by teenyuck ini am posting this per lydia's request....i found it on the wtbts web site.
it is from the september 15, 1998 watchtower.
rather than post the whole thing, which is pages long, here is the url;.
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voltaire
Puffsrule,
Nice picture. How much does a unit like you go for?(This is not a serious inquiry, just a little tire kickin'!)