I think the tone of Ray's book is that of a man who was ashamed of what he was involved in. I personally think he has set an excellent example for all of us. He did what he thought was right, what he was taught to do. When he realized what was going on behind the scenes, his conscience wouldn't allow him to go on. So, at great personal cost, he left and told the world his story. What a man!
voltaire
JoinedPosts by voltaire
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48
Does Ray Franz owe us an apology?
by sleepy in(not, ray franz owes us an apology) .
(ok lets add this on)do those who are or were governing body members have a greater amount of responsability than witnesses in general?at what point do we stop being victims and become instigaters?
this may have been discussed before but i'm not sure.so sorry if it has.
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Human behavioral reason behind present WTS crisis?
by Derrick inhalfway through the article scientists unsure what triggers stranding -- illness, perilous coast may be factors (link: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2002/07/31/mn185450.dtl) the thought occurred to me, what if there are complex human behavioral reasons beyond anyone's control behind the jehovah's witnesses organization's rapid moral disintegration?
the above quoted article reads in part:.
"the mass stranding of pilot whales on cape cod was probably a natural event, marine biologists said tuesday, an accident linked to tight social groupings and the perils of navigating a rugged coastline.
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voltaire
Excellent reasoning! Jws definately have a sort of herd mentality. Those who won't follow the pack, are out of the pack(ok I went from herd to pack), everyone else is expected to, or is happy to, move with the crowd. It could turn nasty someday.
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What would you do if religion collapsed?
by Prisila inat this point in my life i feel very confident that leaving the jws was the best thing for me.
however, 25 years of brainwashing goes a long way.
(for arguments sake) if religion collapsed today, would you feel you made a mistake in leaving the wbts?
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voltaire
not to be a smart aleck, but if religion collapsed, where would you go back to?
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May have to DA
by jaded ini know this is a subject that has been discussed at length on this board.
until now i went along with "not playing their game" and not daing.
now after bill bowen has been disfellowshipped i am feeling embarrassed and ashamed to ever have been associated with this unloving, hypocritical, corrupt organization.
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voltaire
Hey Guys,
I can relate to how you feel. This IS outrageous. But, don't do anything hasty. I'm thinking that in the coming months and years, as this whole thing plays out, you may actually be more useful if you're NOT DAed or DFed. Probably no one talks much to some of you anyway, but if someone did have doubts, they might just muster the courage to talk to someone they know has disagreements but who isn't DFed. After all, the elders won't DF anyone for chatting with someone still officially in, though they might have a talk with them. If anyone in the congregation did see such a brother or sister in a discussion with you or see their car in your driveway, the questioner could always apologise and "accept" the counsel, then be more discreet the next time. If you're "out", most qustioners/doubters are going to be REAL reluctant to approach, no matter how uncomfortable they are with the situation in the organization. At any rate, it's a personal decision (I'll do WT style, I'll leave it up to your conscience!) Good luck no matter which way you go.
Ron
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My beard is a bait!
by caballoSentado ini have grown a beard, it is a bait waiting for an elder to bite.... maybe someone will bite during the coming assembly?.
i would like them to sweat finding a scripture to support their view about not growing beards.. caballo sentado
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voltaire
Caballo,
If your beard gets a bite and it's from a girl, I'd say reel her in and start to filet!
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Mistaken DF Anouncement!!!
by voltaire inmy brother's visiting and natually we got to reminiscing about the congregation back home.
we recalled one of the most astonishing things that ever happened in our congregation(that's saying plenty, too!!!).
names have been changed.. an elder is called up to the podium, obviously about to make a judicial announcement.
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voltaire
My brother's visiting and natually we got to reminiscing about the congregation back home. We recalled one of the most astonishing things that ever happened in our congregation(that's saying plenty, too!!!). Names have been changed.
An elder is called up to the podium, obviously about to make a judicial announcement. You know how that erie hush falls over the congregation. During the time it takes for the brother conducting the meeting to invite the elder to make his announcement and the time he gets to the podium, your mind is racing. "Who hasn't been attending meetings lately"? "Who's been hanging out with worldly people?" "I hope it's just a reproof, or maybe it's a re-instatement?" "Please don't let it be anyone I'm really close to".
This elder was relatively new to our congregation. He was super responsible and took everything very seriously. As he begins his announcement, "A judicial committee has met and makes the following announcement...". TOTAL SILENCE.....Bob Smith has been disfellowshipped. Brother Smith is about 15. His mothr lets out one of the strangest sounds I've ever heard. It was a little like a shriek, but also almost the kind of exhalation someone might make as they flop down on the couch after mowing the lawn in the sun for 2 hours. Her husband (an elder) imediately turns toward her and puts his arm around her. The brother at the podium pauses and looks a little confused for a moment and then says....I'M sorry, I meant to say BOB JONES. (Also a young person in the congregation).
The Mom is up like a flash and heading toward the back, followed by her husband. The elder making the announcement looked quite sheepish and couldn't seem to find enough ways to say "I'm sorry"!
The brother mistakenly announced as DFed was quite an exemplary young man( which didn't keep him from being reproved a few years later BTW). The brother actually DFed was pretty much a ne'er do well and it made a whole lot more sense to see him DFed. I wish I could tell you the congregation. Everyone should really have the chance to visit it someday. It's kinda like going to the zoo and I actually mean that in a rather affectionate way!
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Ay alguien de la congregación español?
by Prisila insorry for being rude, i will post english translation afterwards.. quisiera saber si ay alguien que antes perteneca a la congregacin espaol.
estn en la rea del sur de california?
hay que juntarnos, conocernos e intercambiar historias.
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voltaire
Chau Corazon!
Perteneci a una congregacion en Espanol aqui en Chicago. Que lastima que vives tan lejos! Dejame saber si algun dia viajas hasta aca.
Ron
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Anybody from the Chicago/suburbs area?
by Dia inanybody from the chicago area and/or surrounding suburbs?
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voltaire
Hello Dia,
I live in North Chicago, near Lawrence and Kimball. There's a great place for $1 margaritas about 15 minutes away every Wednesday. If you want to get together sometime, I'm sure it'd be a pleasure to meet and chat.
E-mail me at [email protected]
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Why? Why can't JW's ADMIT there's a problem?
by pomegranate insome one asked: .
>>i don't understand.
i honestly do not understand how active jws can be presented with hundreds upon hundreds of cases that have occurred all over the world, and casually deny that there is any problem.<<.
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voltaire
Pomegranate,
You've hit the nail on the head. If a JW admits there's a problem, they risk destroying the foundation that their whole belief structure is built on. For many JWs it's tantamount to admitting that they've wasted decades of their lives. I fear that as a person's time spent in "the truth" mounts, it becomes harder and harder to admit that they were wrong.
I went through the VERY SAME THING and I was only a JW for about 15 years. But in my case those were all the years of my adult life. I lingered about 3 years more than I probably would have otherwise. In my case I also had to face the fact that leaving "the truth" meant losing my marriage, so that was tough.
Also, by setting up such a rigid belief system, the WTS has created a situation where there can be NO middle ground. It's either all or nothing. This has the great advantage of giving the WTS virtually unlimited power over its members. If you recognize that there is so much as a scintilla of error, then the whole thing melts away. This means that the typical JW can be confronted with quite a bit of disconfirming evidence and still not bend.
At some point, though, that evidence can no longer be shelved or pushed aside. No more "waiting on Jehovah". A critical mass of disconfirming evidence is reached. At that point, the JW starts to experience real anguish. Don't feel frustrated! In the past it was tough to even get ahold of disconfirming evidence. Now, more and more, JWs are exposed to unsavory facts about the WTS. This is bound to have an effect. The fact that JWs are acting defensive is good news. We're hitting a sore spot, giving them information that needs to be shelved. At some point they'll find that they've run out of shelf space. That's when they'll start to question the WTS.
Ron
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Daniel Pearl - Any of this sound familiar?
by Sam Beli insheikh omar defiant after pearl death sentence.
mon jul 15, 6:06 am et.
by imran maqbool .
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voltaire
I guess that puts me squarely in the infidel camp. It's frightening how similar the mentalities of fundamentalist religions can be.
Hope you're doing well Sam,
Regards,
Ron