Posts by Brummie

51

The Two Witness Rule is NOT THE ISSUE

by jst2laws in

the problem.

many here are supporters of the movement to expose the wt society's harmful policies that seem to shelter molesters and punish victims.

a common scenario is there are not two witnesses or a confession to the sin and the "loyal" elders have told the victim and their parents that 'there is nothing more we can do'.

Brummie

I tried to find something I could disagree with for the sake of discussion

Lol..!

I'm probably doing the same thing for the sake of discussion because I can see your post have excellent points but for the sake of discussion:

"Having screwed this up for decades thinking they were above 'Caesar's laws', how do they react when it was brought to their attention that their policy is terribly flawed, at least since 1992?

1 Deny it. (Deny the flaws of the 2 witness rule)

2 Cover it up. (Cover up the flaws of the 2 witness rule, because they must keep it at all costs to excuse themselves)

3 Sensor any in the know who expose it. (by disfellowshipping) (Sensor the expose of the flaws of the 2 witness rule)

4 Ruthlessly attack and discredit the victims in court who dare to hold them liable. (because they didnt have 2 witnesses)

This is to me worse than their (1)'two witness' rule "

But is not all of this the 2 witness rule in action, all of the above exsist because of the WT extreme interpretation of 2 witness rule? Without that rule there wouldn't be any excuse for the suffering. So maybe it is the real issue?

This is to me worse than their (1)'two witness' rule or (2) their teaching that they can handle this crime internally. Number (1) the 'two witness rule', is a product of their personal application of a scriptural principle within the scope of religion. Number (2) that they are above the law, is a reflection of their self-righteous assumption that they are the only PEOPLE OF GOD, and above the human judicial system.

Their personal application of the bibles mention of the 2 witness rule deludes them into thinking they are above Caesar's law which doesnt require 2 witnesses ...again its their 2 witness rule thats the issue

L...I have to agree that the "2-witness rule" is not THE problem although I think it is part of the problem.

Seems to me that their pathetic interpretation of the 2 witness law IS the problem and all the other problems are the consequences of it. So maybe it is the real issue?

Its their gross mis-interpretation of the 2 witness rule thats the real problem, the mis-interpretation is enforced on all these criminal cases but it still leaves that rule at the center of the issue.

OK thats just playing devils advocate and my reasoning is most likely flawed...lol, its getting late.

There are so many good points in your posts but for editing purposes I'll go with this:

Again the issue is not "two witnesses" but who to report to.

Excellent point! grrrr they breed confusion at every opportunity!

Brummie

51

The Two Witness Rule is NOT THE ISSUE

by jst2laws in

the problem.

many here are supporters of the movement to expose the wt society's harmful policies that seem to shelter molesters and punish victims.

a common scenario is there are not two witnesses or a confession to the sin and the "loyal" elders have told the victim and their parents that 'there is nothing more we can do'.

Brummie

Jst2 this post is really appreciated and contains a lot of good info, just a thought though, isnt the 2 witness rule the springboard they use to cover a multitude of thier sins? If they didn't use that law so carelessly what else would they use to justify their actions? Without that law all JWs would have no excuse not to "FIRST refer alleged crime to the authorities". Without that law , hopefully, all JWs would go to the law and where would that leave the GB!

Failure to report allegations of crime to criminal investigators is a product of the 2 witness law so maybe that law is the real issue. Challenge that law and you challenge thier very basis of hiding any criminal activity.

Brummie

27

Found an old Talk..WARNING this may Cause Nausea

by Xena in

jw
friends

was going thru some old files on my computer and stumbled across an old talk i helped my sister with for the school....talk about bringing back bad memories.....but you gotta admit...i was pretty good.... lindsey: thanks for the ride cindy.. .

cindy: your welcome lindsey.. .

lindsey: oh by the way a group of us are going ice skating tomorrow morning and i was wondering if monica and joseph could go with us.. .

Brummie

Kinda brought this picture to mind:

But you sure WERE good in preparing for the school

Brummie

12

call yourself apostates!

by Brummie in

jw
friends

when in the wt we seldom heard of anyone becoming "apostate", sure there was 1 or 2 in the usa somewhere (durrr) but very seldom would we call anyone who left "apostates", so why does it appear that everyone calls themselves apostate if they left for other reasons?

the mindset of most jws was that an "apostate" was someone who left the wts to join another religion in the world empire of false religion (btg), right?

not that it matters at all but just wondering.. .

Brummie

My understanding of an apostate, was not neccessarily one who went and joined another religion, but one who just told the WTS to take a flying leap, or in kinder words, simply felt that the WTS was not the true religion. I didn't think any other action was needed.

Oh yeah your right, its all coming back to me now, one only had to disagree with the WTS and they were bordering on apostacy. Then they only had to speak out to another about the disagreement and then they were full blown apostate....

Like you I still seldom heard about people leaving because of being "apostate" though, I guess the WTS didnt like admitting people left through doctrinal disagreements so just labled them all "opposers" instead.

Brum

12

call yourself apostates!

by Brummie in

jw
friends

when in the wt we seldom heard of anyone becoming "apostate", sure there was 1 or 2 in the usa somewhere (durrr) but very seldom would we call anyone who left "apostates", so why does it appear that everyone calls themselves apostate if they left for other reasons?

the mindset of most jws was that an "apostate" was someone who left the wts to join another religion in the world empire of false religion (btg), right?

not that it matters at all but just wondering.. .

Brummie

J...Hmmm just as I had suspected

Edited by - Brummie on 2 November 2002 23:14:34

12

call yourself apostates!

by Brummie in

jw
friends

when in the wt we seldom heard of anyone becoming "apostate", sure there was 1 or 2 in the usa somewhere (durrr) but very seldom would we call anyone who left "apostates", so why does it appear that everyone calls themselves apostate if they left for other reasons?

the mindset of most jws was that an "apostate" was someone who left the wts to join another religion in the world empire of false religion (btg), right?

not that it matters at all but just wondering.. .

Brummie

When in the WT we seldom heard of anyone becoming "apostate", sure there was 1 or 2 in the USA somewhere (durrr) but very seldom would we call anyone who left "apostates", so why does it appear that everyone calls themselves apostate if they left for other reasons? The mindset of most JWs was that an "apostate" was someone who left the WTS to join another religion in the world empire of false religion (btg), right? Not that it matters at all but just wondering.

Apostate Brummie

as we go from door to door to spread the kingdom news, to be sheep or to be goats we let the people choose...an apostate Kingdom melody

9

Brummie, fancy a drink some time?

by Pleasuredome in

jw
friends

hi brummie.

yer me and johnathonseagul will have to come over to my old home town of birmingham and meet up with you and whoever you know over there for a few lagers.

just a point to mention from a baby to the age of 3 i attend, what is now the notorious, rubry cong.

Brummie

P, the abuser was named Jaswant Patti, he was the asian guy in panorama, dont need any info on him, Simon Brady was the victim, could do with contacting him.

11

for those that asked...

by rwagoner in

jw
friends

for those that have asked...(and i can't imagine why !!!

)...i have changed the link on my profile to go to a more general bio (with pictures) and then link to my exjw story from there.

so for all the morbidly curious....click away !

Brummie

Excellent! am enjoying browsing the Web page.

Brummie

8

came in the flesh

by A Paduan in

that last post just reminded me of something.

john said that "

by this you know the spirit of god: every spirit that confesses that jesus christ has come in the flesh is of god,

Brummie

P, they explain it by ignoring the statement "It is "I" myself" and stating that this body was another materialized only for that moment to prove to the onlookers that he had been resurrected.

The live forever book says he appeared in "many" different bodies, I think. One thing is for certain they DO NOT believe that Jesus earthly body was ever resurrected. It was given as a sacrifice and to take it back would be to take back the ransom. They ignore John 10:17, John 2:19-21 at lesuire as do they ignore Acts 2:31, 32 and anyother scripture that says Christ was raised bodily.

Brummie

2

One Life at a Time

by dyan4help in

i want to encourage you to continue to post the life saving information you have on the watchtower and the changing views on blood.

i have a jw friend who does not post here but quite often "reads over my shoulder".

never in this healthy persons life did he think he would have to make the choice to take blood to save his life.

Brummie

What fantastic news! Hope he will post here when he recovers.

Brummie