Posts by Brummie

112

Thinking about Bill Bowen...

by Pathofthorns in

jw
friends

i was looking over the thread... "should i support bill bowen?".

i realize i am one of the few people that gave bill somewhat of a difficult time pretty much from the beginning when it was not "fashionable" to do so.

it was never my hope to see the man reduced to what he has, but rather to gain a better understanding of the issues involved, the intents and goals of silentlambs and to see reasonableness govern everyone's actions in the whole affair.. imo, i don't think there is any other single person in the last while that has done so much to help address the issue of child abuse among jw's while at the same time exposing them for what they really are.

Brummie

Fjtoth

It's just a bit beyond my comprehension that the fine reputation of good Christian men is now suspect

I am not one of the people who has blasted anyone on any other forum. For me Ray's fine reputation is not tarnished by anything BB said. though I still admit to being disappointed by all involved that still doesnt make me wish to fold my arms and stomp over the issue...it doesnt tarnish either of them either. THEY ARE ONLY MEN and I only ever defended them as being such. They are are already tarnished with the same stuff you and I are tarnished with, sin or imperfection or the ability to speak out of line occasionally or what ever your definition of fallen humanity is. I saw the arguments from both sides and now defend neither one, they both had valid points and since I do not follow either man I had no problem seeing th validity from both arguments, obviousely some people have no desire to look for the valid points in someone they disagree with. I got tired of the same thread being re titled and re-ashed. I saw good arguments from both sides and refused to dismiss everything BB said just because I disagreed with some of it. Neither do I dismiss everything RF said just because I dont believe everything he says. This all might sound unreasonable to you, but I've seen things written that are far more unreasonable against BB and RF, perhaps I will exit the thread respectfully now.

Brummie

112

Thinking about Bill Bowen...

by Pathofthorns in

jw
friends

i was looking over the thread... "should i support bill bowen?".

i realize i am one of the few people that gave bill somewhat of a difficult time pretty much from the beginning when it was not "fashionable" to do so.

it was never my hope to see the man reduced to what he has, but rather to gain a better understanding of the issues involved, the intents and goals of silentlambs and to see reasonableness govern everyone's actions in the whole affair.. imo, i don't think there is any other single person in the last while that has done so much to help address the issue of child abuse among jw's while at the same time exposing them for what they really are.

Brummie

I'm sorry, but that kind of reasoning doesn't make my stomach feel any better.

Lol, I guess the only reasoning that is acceptable is to reason that Ray and co are beyond our critisism (In saying our critisism I'm not not reffering to BB's Vicious ATTACK on ray)...I thought only the GB were beyond our critisism, now thats JW thinking.

If your stomach is still upset, you may want to try an anti - biotic

Just kidding with ya

Brummie

112

Thinking about Bill Bowen...

by Pathofthorns in

jw
friends

i was looking over the thread... "should i support bill bowen?".

i realize i am one of the few people that gave bill somewhat of a difficult time pretty much from the beginning when it was not "fashionable" to do so.

it was never my hope to see the man reduced to what he has, but rather to gain a better understanding of the issues involved, the intents and goals of silentlambs and to see reasonableness govern everyone's actions in the whole affair.. imo, i don't think there is any other single person in the last while that has done so much to help address the issue of child abuse among jw's while at the same time exposing them for what they really are.

Brummie

Fjtoth your not my enemy, I know it. Vice versa. I dont view someone who differs with me as an enemy, but rather, in most cases, as someone who is admirable in being able to make their own stand.

The expression that the accused would hear from so many was "Just wait on Jehovah."

This has not been the case on this topic, the debate has gone over and over and over. The topic has been thought through again and again and both sides have given a reply and all have spoken on this issue as and when they have wantedtherefore Its simply nothing like in JWs and waiting on Jah.

It doesn't matter that Bill took the initiative and went public with unprovable and false accusations. He's the one who gets sympathy instead of the innocent victim of his smear tactics.

It does matter, and I reckon the majority of this board sympathised with Ray and not BB. And thats perfectly acceptable. Whether BBs accusations are false or un-provable is another matter and another endless thread.

Because he's overworked, tired, frustrated, worn to a frazzle, yada yada yada.

Like I said, I can empathise with both, some cant and thats fine by me.

I now defend neither of the guyswhats the point? They can defend themselves and have done so. It gets to the stage of going round in circles. Theres a right time to step of the merry go round isnt there? I am off it.

Personally on this issue I am disappointed in the responses of BB, RF, in particular COJ, and JPbut they are only men and perhaps we all had unrealistic expectations of each of them.

I only responded to this thread because it was started in the best taste, otherwise I wouldnt have got in on the discussion, its all been the same old outworn statements, this thread appeared different.

Brummie

8

New borns...

by Brummie in

jw
friends

anyone heard if kenpodragon's wife has had the baby yet?

while on the topic....this might sound a bit soppy from a guy but when my 2 sons where born i used to sit for hours and just stare in awe at their little face and occasionally (gentley) pinch their ear to make them respond....scuse me while i'm having a goofy moment.

one night after sitting up for hours on end to get them drinking a mere 2ounze i fell asleep exhusted and woke up realising i was holding the bottle in my sons shut eye, both his shut eyes were filled with milk and it was dripping down the side of his face...guilt lol!

Brummie

edited cus it was the same post as the one above mulans...huh

Edited by - Brummie on 20 November 2002 22:16:17

8

New borns...

by Brummie in

jw
friends

anyone heard if kenpodragon's wife has had the baby yet?

while on the topic....this might sound a bit soppy from a guy but when my 2 sons where born i used to sit for hours and just stare in awe at their little face and occasionally (gentley) pinch their ear to make them respond....scuse me while i'm having a goofy moment.

one night after sitting up for hours on end to get them drinking a mere 2ounze i fell asleep exhusted and woke up realising i was holding the bottle in my sons shut eye, both his shut eyes were filled with milk and it was dripping down the side of his face...guilt lol!

Brummie

Shera I often wondered if they kept their eyes shut to avoid looking at my face glaring at them, probably scared the poor blighters.....lol

wahaahah lilacs thats hilarious

112

Thinking about Bill Bowen...

by Pathofthorns in

jw
friends

i was looking over the thread... "should i support bill bowen?".

i realize i am one of the few people that gave bill somewhat of a difficult time pretty much from the beginning when it was not "fashionable" to do so.

it was never my hope to see the man reduced to what he has, but rather to gain a better understanding of the issues involved, the intents and goals of silentlambs and to see reasonableness govern everyone's actions in the whole affair.. imo, i don't think there is any other single person in the last while that has done so much to help address the issue of child abuse among jw's while at the same time exposing them for what they really are.

Brummie

This though does not excuse the lobbing of slander upon a fellow suffere

IW, I agree with you.

While not excusing it I sometimes wonder if it gives a weak reason for it, whether called for or not it is a bitter pill to see people looking at the politics rather than the reality of a situation. If you stand against something so strong as abuse its painful that some would rather argue personalities or politics over the issue. Thats just an observation.

I can empathise with both guys, some can't and thats fine by me.

BTW I now defend neither of the guys, but would work along with them for a just cause.

Brummie

8

New borns...

by Brummie in

jw
friends

anyone heard if kenpodragon's wife has had the baby yet?

while on the topic....this might sound a bit soppy from a guy but when my 2 sons where born i used to sit for hours and just stare in awe at their little face and occasionally (gentley) pinch their ear to make them respond....scuse me while i'm having a goofy moment.

one night after sitting up for hours on end to get them drinking a mere 2ounze i fell asleep exhusted and woke up realising i was holding the bottle in my sons shut eye, both his shut eyes were filled with milk and it was dripping down the side of his face...guilt lol!

Brummie

Anyone heard if Kenpodragon's wife has had the baby yet?

while on the topic....This might sound a bit soppy from a guy but when my 2 sons where born I used to sit for hours and just stare in awe at their little face and occasionally (gentley) pinch their ear to make them respond....scuse me while I'm having a goofy moment

One night after sitting up for hours on end to get them drinking a mere 2ounze I fell asleep exhusted and woke up realising I was holding the bottle in my sons shut eye, both his shut eyes were filled with milk and it was dripping down the side of his face...guilt lol! He slept through the whole thing none the wiser. First son would happily sleep 18 hours if allowed, 2nd son would find it hard to sleep 18 minutes (thats without pinching his ear)

Glad neither will be raised in JWs.

Brum (enjoyed having both kids but definately wouldnt have anymore)

112

Thinking about Bill Bowen...

by Pathofthorns in

jw
friends

i was looking over the thread... "should i support bill bowen?".

i realize i am one of the few people that gave bill somewhat of a difficult time pretty much from the beginning when it was not "fashionable" to do so.

it was never my hope to see the man reduced to what he has, but rather to gain a better understanding of the issues involved, the intents and goals of silentlambs and to see reasonableness govern everyone's actions in the whole affair.. imo, i don't think there is any other single person in the last while that has done so much to help address the issue of child abuse among jw's while at the same time exposing them for what they really are.

Brummie

Great post Path.

I understood Bill a little better last night during a college excersise on Person centred counselling. We were discussing confidentiality and we were asked if we would break confidentiality if the person we were counselling confessed that he/she was abusing their kids....Without hesitation I remarked that we should break that confidentiality and take the necessary actions to make sure the client didnt go home to commit the same crime. I sat aghast at the critisism I recieved from a few of the collegues who thought I was wrong to go beyond what was written in the paper work, this abusive person had a right to confidentiality...! (the paperwork even states that confidentiality has limits in a counselling session) WHo was I to decide what was morally right or wrong of a person? It all became politics rather than the suffering of a child. I felt provoked by the inability of people to see the need to speak up on behalf of an abused, and in that situation I could see why BB could become outraged, I did become outraged on a mere discussion yet he is faced with the bare reality everyday. I am hardly ever provoked to anger but that did it for me.

I think we havent tasted the bitter pill that Bowen has had to swollow and therefore are not in a position to empathise with him, we can critisise all we like but let anyone of us taste that same pill and I am sure we would be reacting in the same way.

Brummie

Edited by - Brummie on 20 November 2002 21:1:35

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