Posts by Acts5v29

475

What is the alternative to JW?

by Formerbrother in

i mean this with all due respect, i would like to hear from genuine people who think jw have it wrong and then what is the truth?.

im not talking about silly little quibbles here and there.. is jehovah real?

the the bible is word?

Acts5v29

The scriptures are clear that violation of that warning in Genesis 2:17 brought about a split between God and men - a split caused because man chose independence. That it is a prophecy is clear: 'can we survive without God, now that we are independent' - and the atheistic views show that we are independent.

The climate crisis, it is merely a catalyst - it could have been anything which was significant enough to prove that we cannot manage alone. However, this crisis is undeniably huge. As it grows too large to cope with, should people still say:

"We've no idea what to do, and this ministry points to something which claims a context and a solution, but even though we're days away from total collapse we will not consider it until worshipJehovah.org addresses the question of evolution / Neanderthals / length of a day/ ..."

would that be reasonable? Up to now, all the rebukes have been in that very vein - is that reasonable? The ministry does not ask for or rely on faith in anything, it asks nothing of you but mental shelf-room - so why the vitriol?

105

Does anyone think Jehovah is protecting the org. despite all the talk about THE ARC ?

by tor1500 in

jw
friends

i've been thinking this for a while.

even before the arc scandal.

it seems no matter what, the org.

Acts5v29

Good afternoon tor1500

@umbertoecho,
What I'm really hoping for is that many in the org. just wake up, they can stay or leave, it's up to them, but at least they know the truth about the org.

I think the fear which is induces is far too much for most, sadly. Perhaps you can help? give some supportive advice on how people could make that move? because it is a terrible harm which has been done to them - whether watchtower, catholic, pentecostal or whatever.

475

What is the alternative to JW?

by Formerbrother in

i mean this with all due respect, i would like to hear from genuine people who think jw have it wrong and then what is the truth?.

im not talking about silly little quibbles here and there.. is jehovah real?

the the bible is word?

Acts5v29

Acts 5 - You continue to totally refuse to deal honestly with the fact of evolution.
Your entire theology is predicated on a literal Edenic paradise that never existed.
This is your "Inconvenient Truth".

You know how these forums tend to go - a bludgeoning without end which really leads nowhere.

I think you have mistaken what the ministry is for...

You mention evolution and could mention other things to do with proof of God. I understand these have been a comfortable sanctuary - a seemingly unbreakable closed door in the face of God-debates - but what I placed before you is not regarding proof of God or of Eden or anything else. I cited to the 1st prophecy in whichever extant (therefore irrefutable) scroll of Genesis which predates the (also irrefutable) climate crisis - the prophecy alone, and the climate crisis. These alone are the predicate - anyone worth their salt will see that they are distinct from extraneous intrusions.

the ministry is not to prove God's existence to non-believers, nor to add to the melée and jousting, nor to undermine other faiths, but to take away the fear of the future in those who do believe, and provide somewhere to look for those who do not. The starting point for non-believers therefore is not the prophecy, but the nemesis crisis. As we run out of options - and the crisis has its own impetus, so we do not have the luxury of time either - this ministry's suggestion will have given something to look back on as a potential context and solution to the problem. In this way, God is making it so that "salvation" - as in being rescued alive - is open and reasonable to everyone who hears it, without the debate of trinity, rapture, hellfire, faithful and discreet slave, Judaism or anything else: it is all down to what we see when we look out of the window, and where - ultimately - we shall turn when we admit we need help.

If you do not believe in God anymore, or you do not wish to think about it - please, be my guest. I'm not trying to make people uncomfortable (quite the opposite!)

475

What is the alternative to JW?

by Formerbrother in

i mean this with all due respect, i would like to hear from genuine people who think jw have it wrong and then what is the truth?.

im not talking about silly little quibbles here and there.. is jehovah real?

the the bible is word?

Acts5v29

As five of you have given separate posts but in a similar manner, I'll just give one in response to all.

worshipJehovah.org takes no income from anyone, and what it produces it gives away - it is not a business, nor a religion, nor does it tell anyone what to do, nor does it claim to have special knowledge which others cannot have. The scripture has been there throughout the millennia for those who wanted to read it and see that it was, indeed, an issue.

As for Revelation being the Roman period, I have repeatedly mentioned that the 1st earthly event of that vision has not yet occurred - that of a united cry of appreciation from everyone alive to both God and to His Son. This - alone - undermines the watchtower, but nobody will take it up, because it simultaneously undermines all other Christian groups which preach that Revelation has begun.

Thus far, the only contentions ever received to what I proposed to you have been:

Prove God exists
There is no climate crisis

The 2nd one is a scientifically unwise statement. The 1st one is intransigence, because we all accept things on trust - even things which simply cannot be proved, we accept them on trust. But as for the watchtower people, they all run away from it.

Had I said à la Harold Camping:

"The world will end at 6 pm EST - sell your belongings in order to get into Heaven"

then some people would do that. Or had I said:

"I have found an ancient calendar in Lake Wobegon which says the world will end on October 19th 2017"

then some would believe it and even make a film about it. Or if I were to say:

"I am the faithful and discreet slave - the only prophet - and you should sell magazines for me"

then again, some people would believe it and do it.

But all I have done is offer a simple correlation and ask - not demanding belief in God, but just reason on the existence of that scripture and of the climate crisis - that a measure of credence would be sensible and reasonable. That is simple enough - so why the tumult? if you don't like it then don't, but when one is in a burning building, it is strange to disbelieve someone who says they know of an exit, just because he happens to belong to a race or religion you do not like. Reason would impel credence.

475

What is the alternative to JW?

by Formerbrother in

i mean this with all due respect, i would like to hear from genuine people who think jw have it wrong and then what is the truth?.

im not talking about silly little quibbles here and there.. is jehovah real?

the the bible is word?

Acts5v29

Then I would have to wonder why you are here on a religious forum - but I think the answer is evident.

Stay with your lack of belief - I won't try to change you. Nevertheless, intransigence hinders so very much of ones potential.

475

What is the alternative to JW?

by Formerbrother in

i mean this with all due respect, i would like to hear from genuine people who think jw have it wrong and then what is the truth?.

im not talking about silly little quibbles here and there.. is jehovah real?

the the bible is word?

Acts5v29

In that case, as the climate crisis continues, perhaps you will wonder where we will get help from - but what is certain is that it will continue.

If one were to ask a Jew, they would not say they have a belief in God, or faith - God is part of their history. There will always be people who demand proof - to their own satisfaction - before considering anything, but that cannot be satisfied. Professor Lovelock spent 40 years trying to induce credence in his Gaia theory before it was accepted - what could he see that they could not?...

In our ministry we do not ask for belief, we ask that those who see the reason give a measure of credence - 50%, 5%, 1% - because this is the context surrounding the climate crisis, and the explanation for why the God Whom you do not believe in has been silent. What could James Lovelock see - what can believers, Jews, Christians, lovers of God see - that others cannot? Their credence enables them to look, because the alternative - the intransigence - is what halts us, and is also what is bringing our era of independence to its demise.

475

What is the alternative to JW?

by Formerbrother in

i mean this with all due respect, i would like to hear from genuine people who think jw have it wrong and then what is the truth?.

im not talking about silly little quibbles here and there.. is jehovah real?

the the bible is word?

Acts5v29

I have downloaded a copy of your document and promise to have a read.
You seem to be very focussed on climate change and - like the Watchtower - on a return to an Edenic condition.
Does the fact that there never was an Eden and that humans did not fall from perfection trouble your theology at all?

Good afternoon coffy,
worshipJehovah.org is not "green" - that just happens to be a catalyst to God's purpose. Professor Lovelock is a brilliant man, but neither he nor we are concerned with the "new age" Gaia which grew around it. Our ministry has been to show a reason for things based on two things: the 1st prophecy, and the climate crisis - and invite people to see that it is reasonable, whether believers or not, to give credence to solutions given that we are running out of those born out of our self-reliance.
If people do not believe in the Edenic account - and I know there are plenty who don't - that is up to them, and I don't try to dissuade them. What we place before them boiled down to its basics, is the two issues I mentioned, enough for some total non-believers to give a measure of credence, and that is all we ask.
As for those who do have a faith, they are the ones who wonder about God's inactivity and how a God came leave truth hidden within a Babel of religions and then slaughter those who don't find it - well, this ministry predates Christianity with its beliefs, and Judaism and its traditions, and pretty much everything else. SHowing that God has our era of independence has a context helps to remove credence in the "believe this or God will kill you" preaching, which is as much as we can hope for.
In the end, God will provide the rescue and these questions will be set aside - this ministry is to take away the fears that have and will continue to grow until He intervenes.

475

What is the alternative to JW?

by Formerbrother in

i mean this with all due respect, i would like to hear from genuine people who think jw have it wrong and then what is the truth?.

im not talking about silly little quibbles here and there.. is jehovah real?

the the bible is word?

Acts5v29

I can show you if you like why God cannot intervene, why His omnipotence is not enough to let Him do whatever He wants, and what that issue is - none of which involves belief or religion. If you want, PM me
You have the answer to the biggest question in theology - share it here please!

The answer is best given in two parts - and I can assure you that although it refers to Bible incidents, credence in it does not require belief in God.

Firstly the issue:

The 1st prophecy in the scriptures is Genesis 2:17 where God essentially warned the first humans:

"if you go independent of Me, it will bring about your demise"

The proof of that is in two parts: the climate crisis is already far along the way to proving that civilisation cannot survive without help, and God's intervention will give proof that He can provide it.

Given that this 1st prophecy far predates the climate crisis, and given that we are rapidly running out of options, is it not reasonable to give a measure of credence in the pairing of the two?

Second is supplemental:

the issue has nothing to do with belief, nor doctrines, nor religion - it is concerned with authority. God had authority over the earth, and Mankind usurped it - this is the Prodigal Son aspect to it. Each nation has its share of authority - over its own territory, sphere of governance, and population. The heads of state and heads of government therefore hold the entire earth's authority - these are the ones who must call to God for help concerning the adverse effects of the nemesis climate crisis. Once they do that, then the earth's entire authority will have been submitted to God, and then He will have active authority in the earth again.

A consequence is that when the Prodigal Son returns and God intervenes, He will save everyone alive - whether good, bad, believer or non-believer - and the world will have crossed a line, a turning point back toward the way the world should always have been. People will - of course - have the choice whether to follow the evident benevolent Divine authority or to reject it, but it will lead us back to that Eden-like state of God's protection and active guidance.

God intends to catch everyone alive - there is no "one-true-religion". Were God to intervene on some matter now, it would favour a person, a people, a country, a race, a religion, ... something. But the issue is none of these - the issue is one of authority. Likewise the challenge laid down by the adversary has to be proved properly, otherwise that one could claim that God had cheated on the issue - so God cannot intervene until that entire authority has called to Him.

Finally, regarding God's power as a solution... using it would not prove the issue - how would creation feel about a show of strength to blast away a contention? It was force - by the adversary - which caused the issue, but it will be settled by God's waiting for us to realise that we need help - we need to learn. That intransigence on our part is what has ensured that God cannot intervene.

You can imagine, religions hate this - because it is kind, reasonable, simple, has no carrot or stick, no force to keep people under control. In contrast, some atheists can see the reason - most of whom remain atheist, of course, but that can see the reason. The point is: this issue always had to be the way - it appeals to our need, it is patient in waiting for us to learn, it only needs us to look out of the window at the climate crisis and see that we need help, it has nothing to do with faith or beliefs or religion... it simply asks people, given that we are running out of options, to give a measure of credence to something which points to an exit in a burning building.

You can find this in a short PDF text - free, without any registration - at www.worshipJehovah.org/divineRescue

(not associated with any religion)

475

What is the alternative to JW?

by Formerbrother in

i mean this with all due respect, i would like to hear from genuine people who think jw have it wrong and then what is the truth?.

im not talking about silly little quibbles here and there.. is jehovah real?

the the bible is word?

Acts5v29

There's this lingering feeling in many, though, that to do so would be short-sighted, that they would be to throw out the baby with the bathwater - that God isn't at fault ( infact is very precious and there for them ) but some horrible poison has corrupted His reputation.
If nobody understands what it is he wants or who he is, how is that NOT gods fault? How is he precious and there for anyone? I earnestly prayed to God for thirty years, and got nothing back, so how was God there for me?
If God is all powerful, his reputation is entirely in his control. He is either not all powerful, therefore not God, or he doesn't exist. I violate for doesn't exist.

I think the notion "what God wants" is part of the problem - religions preach that God wants this and God wants that, but He has made perfectly clear what the issue is - only nobody likes it. That same issue is the reason why He cannot intervene - even after 30 years' of prayer - for us individually, but again: nobody likes the reason why. As for God's omnipotence meaning that He can do what He likes and everything is in His control... again the same issue answers this, and again... nobody likes it.

I understand your feelings, but can you perceive how many of them are due to what religions have said to you? Blame those who form the religions - blame centuries of bad direction also - but in all honesty God is completely separate from them.

I can show you if you like why God cannot intervene, why His omnipotence is not enough to let Him do whatever He wants, and what that issue is - none of which involves belief or religion. If you want, PM me - if you don't like what I show you, then that's alright too - but if you can understand how something so simple can explain your points, then I assure you that you will lose all kinds of concerns over God and the future.

sincerely,

Acts5v29

475

What is the alternative to JW?

by Formerbrother in

i mean this with all due respect, i would like to hear from genuine people who think jw have it wrong and then what is the truth?.

im not talking about silly little quibbles here and there.. is jehovah real?

the the bible is word?

Acts5v29

to do so would be short-sighted, that they would be throwing out the baby with the bathwater
But that's just it.. there is nothing to throw out at all. There is no baby either.. not a single person can produce any kind of verifiable real relationship with either any God or his so called son. It's all just fantasy, wishful thinking and delusional imagination. Those that claimed they did have such a thing are merely antiquated stories based on thousands of years old second, third, forth and fifth hand stories. Forgive me for not wanting to base my life on fairy tales and legends.

I can understand your scepticism. God does not need us to believe in Him for His purpose to come to fruition, which would beg the question what that purpose is.
I have a ministry which does not require one to believe in God, nor even in what the ministry says, yet is definitely Bible-based. It is greatly disliked by believers, but atheists seem to get it - even if they do not like it - at least those who use reason get it.