Zep

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Posts by Zep

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  11

  Douglas Walsh Trial Testimony - Take II

  by waiting in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i posted this yesterday, but friend's discussion is going on - and i really think this is a fascinating display on what obedience to the wtbts means to the gb or parts thereof.. obedience for the sake of unity to the organization is valued over anything else - including truth.

  the douglas walsh triah took place in 1954. the vice president of the wtbts, fred franz, and the wtbts legal counsel, haydon covington, each gave testimony before the british court.. fred franz and haydon covington were testifying that some of its members were ordained ministers.. the man asking the questions is attorney for the ministry of labour and national service, part of which follows:.

  q. is it not vital to speak the truth on religious matters?

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  Zep

  Sorry Solid??? i dont get yah....Jehovah witnesses say they ARE Gods org!.I mean, i dont really believe it but they sure do!
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  11

  Douglas Walsh Trial Testimony - Take II

  by waiting in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i posted this yesterday, but friend's discussion is going on - and i really think this is a fascinating display on what obedience to the wtbts means to the gb or parts thereof.. obedience for the sake of unity to the organization is valued over anything else - including truth.

  the douglas walsh triah took place in 1954. the vice president of the wtbts, fred franz, and the wtbts legal counsel, haydon covington, each gave testimony before the british court.. fred franz and haydon covington were testifying that some of its members were ordained ministers.. the man asking the questions is attorney for the ministry of labour and national service, part of which follows:.

  q. is it not vital to speak the truth on religious matters?

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  Zep

  Obedience for the sake of Unity to the Organization is valued over anything else - including Truth

  When i say "no sane person could accept his assertions"...I mean, basically that its UNFAIR to expect people to just submit blindly to an organization and just accept stuff for the sake of unity, and i dont mean to suggest(though i probably have, and i think you may have taken it this way) that your any more insane for having been a JW than me or others who haven't BTW!....As too with with AF when he called JW's "dumb sheep", you can take that however way you want, but you can call someone DUMB to make a point in refernce to the way they behave but not consider them to be DUMB as a whole!...their actions are dumb, the individual maybe quite smart but just seems to put brain aside for a second.....everyone does it, JW's sure dont have an exclusive hold on that, thats for sure!

  I think Luke is very applicable, im not saying that it proved Franz wrong, as to whether he's the head of gods org or not!....I'm just saying that at that particular time God definitely wasn't working through him at all because his words were far wise!.I think LUKE has a very wide application, i sure think it can apply in this case, i mean, what better time for god to give him a mouth of wisdom....maybe God just didn't feel like doing it?! I dont know?!.
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  52

  JW prophets or not!!

  by Zep in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  well they use to claim they were...of course now they dont, at least not in so many words.their very name itself however, implies that they speak for jehovah.but if its the case as they claim, that they are not his prophets & do not neccessarily speak for him then they have no right to the name "jehovah witnesses"....furthermore, if they are not prophets then how can they claim that rev11:3-4 is referring to them....pg164 of revelation..grand climax book.here it says that "my 2 witnesses shall prophesy".....but since they are not prophets then how can they prophesy....how can god cause them to prophesy?.

  its all games obviously...an attempt to avoid the label "false prophet" but in the process of doing so they just end up looking even more stupid!....

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  Zep

  Then please do explain yourself then friend.I failed to see your point and put up.Perhaps you could do the same eh!.I stand by my point!
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  11

  Douglas Walsh Trial Testimony - Take II

  by waiting in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i posted this yesterday, but friend's discussion is going on - and i really think this is a fascinating display on what obedience to the wtbts means to the gb or parts thereof.. obedience for the sake of unity to the organization is valued over anything else - including truth.

  the douglas walsh triah took place in 1954. the vice president of the wtbts, fred franz, and the wtbts legal counsel, haydon covington, each gave testimony before the british court.. fred franz and haydon covington were testifying that some of its members were ordained ministers.. the man asking the questions is attorney for the ministry of labour and national service, part of which follows:.

  q. is it not vital to speak the truth on religious matters?

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  Zep

  Absolute obedience would be fine if you knew that the person or organization that required it was the real deal.If you knew it had your best interest at heart, and had perfect knowledge like a God then i suppose you could make the decision to submit to it blindly.But in this world, thats just not possible, Fred is just being unreasonable because he's so full of the belief that he's part some holy organization.No sane person could accept his assertions!
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  11

  Douglas Walsh Trial Testimony - Take II

  by waiting in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i posted this yesterday, but friend's discussion is going on - and i really think this is a fascinating display on what obedience to the wtbts means to the gb or parts thereof.. obedience for the sake of unity to the organization is valued over anything else - including truth.

  the douglas walsh triah took place in 1954. the vice president of the wtbts, fred franz, and the wtbts legal counsel, haydon covington, each gave testimony before the british court.. fred franz and haydon covington were testifying that some of its members were ordained ministers.. the man asking the questions is attorney for the ministry of labour and national service, part of which follows:.

  q. is it not vital to speak the truth on religious matters?

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  Zep

  any comments pertinent to this subject?

  >>Fred's blowing smoke out his BUTT!...and what do you mean you didn't know i couldn't write with so many full sentences eh!?
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  3

  Appointed Times of the Nations

  by George in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  appointed times of the nations.

  was its last king cut off?

  ) - the subject and the object are the same!

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  Zep

  I like the fact that JW's claim to be Gods people, or the one he has decided to reveal the secrets of the bible to.Of course the seven times mystery wasn't revealed to JW's at all but to a guy 40 years prior, who came up with it!.N.H.barbour took it on and just changed the dates.I also like the fact that one article i read JW's more or less praised Jehovah for providing enough secular evidence to pin their seven times stuff.Yes, so great of him to provide evidence all pointing to 539 and 587 yet not a shred for 607?????...God was really thinking there!
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  28

  Douglas Walsh Trial Testimony

  by waiting in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the douglas walsh triah took place in 1954. the vice president of the wtbts, fred franz, and the wtbts legal counsel, haydon covington, each gave testimony before the british court.. fred franz and haydon covington were testifying that some of its members were ordained ministers.. the man asking the questions is attorney for the ministry of labour and national service, part of which follows:.

  q. is it not vital to speak the truth on religious matters?

  q. is there in your view room in a religion for a change of interpretation of holy writ from time to time?

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  Zep

  Waiting:I would like to see other people's thoughts on the thought of total mind obedience to the WTBTS as stated by Fred Franz.

  Well waiting i guess you sure cant apply luke 21:14-16 to Freds testimony eh!.He made himself look stupid, plain and simple!!!.I think his words speak for themselves.Freds talking out his A**!
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  5

  Psychology Experiment in Causing Pain

  by waiting in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  "stanley milgram was born on 1933 in new york city.

  he grew up during the second world war, right when the nazi atrocities were still fresh in the memories of millions.. milgram's classic experiment pitted the subject's moral beliefs against the demands of authority.

  of all the psychology experiments i am aware of, milgram's produces the most startling and disturbing.

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  Zep

  Yeah Waiting, i remember seeing those experiments on TV...the guy was screaming but the other guy while looking uncomfortable about it all just kept zapping the poor sucker!

  Heres another weird experiment i heard about!
  To test the idea as to whether there is life after death you could say?!
  Apparently a few centuries back an experiment was done in France or somewhere to see if when you had your head cut off by the guillotine you were still conscious of things for a time.How it worked was that the person to be executed was told that his family would be given great wealth, and all he/she had to do to ensure this was to wink at executioner when he picked up their head!.So i hear, about half winked!.....Spooky eh!
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  52

  JW prophets or not!!

  by Zep in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  well they use to claim they were...of course now they dont, at least not in so many words.their very name itself however, implies that they speak for jehovah.but if its the case as they claim, that they are not his prophets & do not neccessarily speak for him then they have no right to the name "jehovah witnesses"....furthermore, if they are not prophets then how can they claim that rev11:3-4 is referring to them....pg164 of revelation..grand climax book.here it says that "my 2 witnesses shall prophesy".....but since they are not prophets then how can they prophesy....how can god cause them to prophesy?.

  its all games obviously...an attempt to avoid the label "false prophet" but in the process of doing so they just end up looking even more stupid!....

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  Zep

  Friend,

  Honestly, i fail to see any major difference between:

  Believing your telling the will of God
  and
  Believing your divinely inspired by God

  I suppose Jw’s do, but they love playing word games… the average person however would see no difference!.Go to someones door and use either one of those phrases, both will be taken the same way 99.9% of the time! To me its just semantics!

  But OK

  “what they believe the will of God is”

  Maybe your saying they are only offering an opinion?????????.I’ve read a few articles on this topic and I have to say that the word games and contradictions that come out of the WT are bizarre!.Anyway, it may well be an opinion that they have but they qualify their opinion as more than just that, read their stuff, its full of rhetoric claiming its the “truth, truth truth, truth”…the average person is left no doubt as to the claim they are making….they are doing more than offering an “belief” or “opinion” up for consideration…they present it as Fact, as the truth.They took the name “jehovahs witnesses” for a reason, to emphasize divine favour, that god was working through them and I mean, how much divine favour can someone have when all their prophecies fail eh?! Nah, they do more than just offer an opinion of the will of God, they make it sound as if that opinion is from God!

  “rather than a divine inspiration of prediction”

  If they are not inspired by god to prophesy, then it appears that their interpretation of Revelation is in error. Read revelation Chpter 11 pg 164 of Revelation book, near the beginning it says “I WILL CAUSE my 2 witnesses to prophesy”…this is referring to the period between 1914-1918, what did they believe back then, what did they prophesy?…weird stuff that’s what!, God couldn’t have caused it! Therefore that passage of revelation cannot possibly be referring to them!.But they say it is…and are therefore saying that they ARE inspired?! They certainly cant use luke 21:14-16 in reference to themselves either if they are not “inspired”.

  But in the end, its all just word games that they play as I said..In my mind, they have done and still do claim inspiration at times, both directly and indirectly… they claim to be Gods prophets when it suits them and when it doesn’t they use terms like “watchman” and little disclaimers that “we are not infallible”…blah blah blah. Mate, they have contradicted themselves so many times and made many so many false predictions its a joke.Jw’s will have to do a lot of repenting in order for me to take them seriously again….stopping the lies would be a good start, what do yah think?!
  Just another point, since we all know how JW’s like to jump on the Catholic church, if it was the catholic church that had made all those false predictions rather than the WT…..you can bet your bottom dollar that the Wt wouldn’t hold back from condemnation and quoting Deuteronomy!.
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  15

  who's the biggest nutbag?

  by Zep in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  joseph smith or rutherford??????.

  i mean rutherford wrote some weird stuff and lots of it, i personnally find his writings hilarious..."the list" is a laugh a minute!..

  but surely ol' rutherford never wrote something as weird as the quote below by joseph smith the mormon prophet?.

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  Zep

  Dubby:Rutherford said Jehovah lived in the constellation of the Pleides...thats what he said, i read it on "the List".Its a real small constellation somewhere to the left of Orion in the Southern hemishpere...to your right in the North!...somewhere near Taurus! i think!

  I was curious about what mormons beleived and if they too made predictions of the end like JW's and came up with this site:

  http://www.saintsalive.com/mormonism/falseprophetjs.htm

  Joseph smith is supposed to have predicted the end of the world to come in 1890 twice....

  Edited by - Zep on 7 July 2000 22:37:31