JW prophets or not!!

Zep

Well they use to claim they were...of course now they dont, at least not in so many words.Their very name itself however, implies that they speak for Jehovah.But if its the case as they claim, that they are not his prophets & do not neccessarily speak for him then they have no right to the name "jehovah witnesses"....Furthermore, if they are not prophets then how can they claim that Rev11:3-4 is referring to them....pg164 of revelation..grand climax book.Here it says that "my 2 witnesses shall PROPHESY".....but since they are not Prophets then how can they prophesy....how can God cause them to prophesy?
Its all games obviously...an attempt to avoid the label "false prophet" but in the process of doing so they just end up looking even more stupid!....

Friend

Zep

The WTS does teach that Jehovah’s Witnesses—the "anointed" in particular—act as prophets. So what? What exactly do you think that means anyway?

If you want to pursue this discussion then I would also like your views on a related issue. What do you think the biblical standard of judgment is for a Christian guilty of falsely prophesying or tacitly supporting it?

Friend

Zep

It is clear to me that they believe they are from God, his prophets, his chosen, use whatever words you like, but thats the claim.Its also obvious that they have made many many false predictions while virtually claiming to be of God.Hence, they are basically full of it and have no credibility, or should have none anyway.
When confronted with these false predictions, when it suits them, they then seem to claim merely to be expressing an opinion, and not inspired or prophets...but fallible, and they have used terms like "watchman" etc...and "new light".....its all just jargon, anyone can see through it!.Its makes them in my mind look even more stupid than their false prophecies already have, they're basically trying to deny the obvious!.
What is the biblical judgment for some one guilty of false prophecy????....you could to deuteronomy and say they deserve to die, doesn't really matter to me!.Its very simple in my mind, a rock could understand it, someone who makes predictions in the name of God and they dont happen, cannot be from God and deserves no attention...God can do with 'em what he likes after that!

Friend

Zep

I agree that the Society and Jehovah’s Witnesses have falsely prophesied. On the other hand, I would contend that their prophesying is in the manner of telling what they believe the will of God is rather than a divine inspiration of prediction. Do you see any difference in the two?

What is the biblical judgment for some one guilty of false prophecy????....you could to deuteronomy and say they deserve to die, doesn't really matter to me! Its very simple in my mind, a rock could understand it, someone who makes predictions in the name of God and they dont happen, cannot be from God and deserves no attention...God can do with 'em what he likes after that!

I would agree that Deuteronomy (presumably you refer to 18:20-22) provides a method for certainly identifying a false prophet or prophecy but actions the Bible attributes to Jesus indicates that that text’s judgment is not the one Jesus utilizes towards Christians. In that regard, have you considered the ramifications of what is described at Revelation 2:18-29?

Friend

Pathofthorns

Friend,

What would you say it would take for someone to be considered a false prophet as described in Deuteronomy 18:20-22?

Path

Friend

Pathofthorns

What would you say it would take for someone to be considered a false prophet as described in Deuteronomy 18:20-22?

I hold that the text of Deuteronomy 18:20-22 is speaking of persons claiming divine inspiration for prediction. If so, then a false prophet in that context must necessarily be one claiming divine inspiration for prediction. If such a prophet’s prediction failed then they would be considered a false prophet as described at Deuteronomy 18:20-22. Do you think the WTS claims such an inspiration?

Aside from that personal view of the subject text, in an abstract sense you can legitimately apply Deuteronomy 18:20-22 to mean that anything said that turns out to be false is therefore false. If the thing said amounts to prophecy then the thing that is either true or false is prophecy, regardless of the manner of prophecy. But then no one needed any special direction to understand that, did they. That is one reason for which I believe the subject text refers to those claiming divine inspiration for prediction rather than those trying to explain what they believe based upon what someone else has said. The latter is closer to what the WTS and Jehovah’s Witnesses have done, if not identical to it.

The text does two things. For one, as I said before, the subject text provides a method for certainly identifying a false prophet or prophecy. In addition the text also provides an unequivocal and fixed judgment for a false prophet. Regardless of whether I am right or wrong about the specific application of Deuteronomy 18:20-22 the question remains, is that the standard for judgment Jesus applies toward his congregation? What do you think?

Friend

Zep

Friend,

Honestly, i fail to see any major difference between:

Believing your telling the will of God
and
Believing your divinely inspired by God

I suppose Jw’s do, but they love playing word games… the average person however would see no difference!.Go to someones door and use either one of those phrases, both will be taken the same way 99.9% of the time! To me its just semantics!

But OK

“what they believe the will of God is”

Maybe your saying they are only offering an opinion?????????.I’ve read a few articles on this topic and I have to say that the word games and contradictions that come out of the WT are bizarre!.Anyway, it may well be an opinion that they have but they qualify their opinion as more than just that, read their stuff, its full of rhetoric claiming its the “truth, truth truth, truth”…the average person is left no doubt as to the claim they are making….they are doing more than offering an “belief” or “opinion” up for consideration…they present it as Fact, as the truth.They took the name “jehovahs witnesses” for a reason, to emphasize divine favour, that god was working through them and I mean, how much divine favour can someone have when all their prophecies fail eh?! Nah, they do more than just offer an opinion of the will of God, they make it sound as if that opinion is from God!

“rather than a divine inspiration of prediction”

If they are not inspired by god to prophesy, then it appears that their interpretation of Revelation is in error. Read revelation Chpter 11 pg 164 of Revelation book, near the beginning it says “I WILL CAUSE my 2 witnesses to prophesy”…this is referring to the period between 1914-1918, what did they believe back then, what did they prophesy?…weird stuff that’s what!, God couldn’t have caused it! Therefore that passage of revelation cannot possibly be referring to them!.But they say it is…and are therefore saying that they ARE inspired?! They certainly cant use luke 21:14-16 in reference to themselves either if they are not “inspired”.

But in the end, its all just word games that they play as I said..In my mind, they have done and still do claim inspiration at times, both directly and indirectly… they claim to be Gods prophets when it suits them and when it doesn’t they use terms like “watchman” and little disclaimers that “we are not infallible”…blah blah blah. Mate, they have contradicted themselves so many times and made many so many false predictions its a joke.Jw’s will have to do a lot of repenting in order for me to take them seriously again….stopping the lies would be a good start, what do yah think?!
Just another point, since we all know how JW’s like to jump on the Catholic church, if it was the catholic church that had made all those false predictions rather than the WT…..you can bet your bottom dollar that the Wt wouldn’t hold back from condemnation and quoting Deuteronomy!.

Friend

Zep

Honestly, i fail to see any major difference between:
Believing your telling the will of God
and
Believing your divinely inspired by God

Honestly that is not the differentiation I suggested either. Please, no word games.

The rest of your comments reflect an inadequate understanding of the Bible’s depiction of prophets and their actions as such. Do you think the Bible describes only one manner of legitimate prophesying?

Friend

waiting

Friend,

I agree that the Society and Jehovah’s Witnesses have falsely prophesied. On the other hand, I would contend that their prophesying is in the manner of telling what they believe the will of God is rather than a divine inspiration of prediction. Do you see any difference in the two?

If you are suggestion any differce other than

Believing your telling the will of God
and
Believing your divinely inspired by God

then Zep is not the only one who fails to see the difference. I cannot see any significant difference either.

Please tell us the point you are making - and not resort to using people's names, such as John and Mary, etc. to make your point.

I read Rev 2:18-29, and would not know how to accurately apply this scripture to this discussion. I don't pretend to be able to interpret Revelation - every religion and their brother try to do that.

If you are interpreting Revelation: please tell us your interpretation.

By the way, as you have undoubtable read in previous threads, Zep visited for a short term with JWs in a Bible study. You are starting to become insultive as you have done in the past with everyone else who would try to honestly converse with you.

The rest of your comments reflect an inadequate understanding of the Bible’s depiction of prophets and their actions as such.

Please do not fall into that pattern again - these current conversations with you have been enjoyable - please do not act insultive towards Zep nor push the rest of us away for communicating with you. That would defeat the purpose of your being here, would it not?

waiting

Edited by - waiting on 8 July 2000 21:47:45

Zep

Then please do explain yourself then friend.I failed to see your point and put up.Perhaps you could do the same eh!.I stand by my point!

JW prophets or not!!

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