Tower Man: The dishonesty in that broshure (and in similar WT articles at the time, such as on Justin Martyr, Polycarp, and Irenaeus) was for me, at the time, too much to take. I could no longer believe that an organization that lied so deliberately about what the Church Fathers taught was playing it straight with other claims it was making.
Leolaia
JoinedPosts by Leolaia
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Should You Believe in the Trinity?
by Tower Man ini posted this about 1 year ago and people seemed to really enjoy it.
it's a simulated discussion about the watchtower's main anti-trinity booklet named, should you believe in the trinity.
the purpose of the article is not to validate or discredit the trinity, but solely to examine the watchtower's literary honesty or dishonesty.
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The king of eternity and the eternal house
by Leolaia inin jeremiah 10:10, yahweh bears two titles that are placed in parallelism: mlk 'wlm "eternal king" and hw'-'lhym chyym "the living god".
in canaanite literature, 'llm or olam is an epithet that the aged father god el specifically bears, in addition to ab-shanem "father of years," elyon "most high", shaddai "mountain-dweller," and others.
however the rephaim, the dead ancestor kings in the netherworld, may also lay claim to 'llm in their kingship.
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Leolaia
BTW....This is assuming that the imperfect verb is in the qal form; Yahweh-Baal as "Baal Lives" or "Baal Shall Live", perhaps "Baal Abides". But isn't chayah with a cheth -- not a he? I guess that makes the conventional derivation questionable to me. But another interesting fact is that the oath formula chy-yhwh "Yahweh Lives" does occur 43 times in the OT, according to the TDOT.
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The king of eternity and the eternal house
by Leolaia inin jeremiah 10:10, yahweh bears two titles that are placed in parallelism: mlk 'wlm "eternal king" and hw'-'lhym chyym "the living god".
in canaanite literature, 'llm or olam is an epithet that the aged father god el specifically bears, in addition to ab-shanem "father of years," elyon "most high", shaddai "mountain-dweller," and others.
however the rephaim, the dead ancestor kings in the netherworld, may also lay claim to 'llm in their kingship.
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Leolaia
PP....I did not dismiss the possibility that Yahweh is etymologically related to or derived from Ugaritic Yaw, indeed I acknowledged it as either a reinforcing or derivational factor. What I dismissed is that the specific deity of Yaw is to be identified with Yahweh. Your suggestion of Yahweh as a hypocoristic form sounds quite attractive to me, though I'm not sure how philologically valid it is. I would consider maybe Yahweh-Ba'al "Ba'al Lives" as mythologically more appropriate. But perhaps Yahweh is just an epithet, like the many that Baal, El, Asherah, Anat, and Resheph have. This goes back to Yahweh's epithet 'lhym chyym "the living God" in Jeremiah 10:10 and other texts. Could Yahweh have originated as a similar epithet, denoting Baal/Yahweh's victory over death?
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The king of eternity and the eternal house
by Leolaia inin jeremiah 10:10, yahweh bears two titles that are placed in parallelism: mlk 'wlm "eternal king" and hw'-'lhym chyym "the living god".
in canaanite literature, 'llm or olam is an epithet that the aged father god el specifically bears, in addition to ab-shanem "father of years," elyon "most high", shaddai "mountain-dweller," and others.
however the rephaim, the dead ancestor kings in the netherworld, may also lay claim to 'llm in their kingship.
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Leolaia
St. Satan......If you haven't read this webpage, it is well worth it....it debunks much of his fake linguistics:
http://www.sitchiniswrong.com/sitchinerrors.htm
Enjoy!
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Ok, Question: Was there a comment made at a meeting that finally convinced.
by New Castles inwas there a comment made at a meeting that finally convinced you, this is not right?
for me a couple of weeks ago was in the service meeting, they stated that if the children didnt finish their homework because they were studying the bible or at a meeting that teachers should understand that their meetings and study are more important.
i looked at my wife and went "what"??
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Leolaia
New Castles....That was such an interesting question you posed....I am really enjoying this thread.....together with 4JWY, I welcome you both again to the board, and I look forward to your contributions and 'fellowship' in the months to come.
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THE BLOOD ISSUE (FOR NEWBIES & JW LURKERS)
by Corvin indo jehovah?s witnesses accept any medical products derived from blood?.
they too refuse transfusions of whole blood, red cells, white cells, platelets, or plasma.
if any medicine to be prescribed may be made from blood plasma, red or white cells, or platelets, ask:.
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Leolaia
Corvin....Thanks so much for posting this. It's good to read it from their own writings. What I've always wondered about is why the Org makes such a hullabaloo about banning transfusions but could hardly care less about Witness' consumption of blood in eating rare steak. Do they not know that this is considered "eating blood" in some form; why not also salt their meat like those eating kosher (cf. Talmud Chullin 113a; Shulchan Aruch 69-78)? Why go to such extremes in a medical use of blood yet be lenient on the actual eating of blood? Put another way, why impose elaborate halakha on an extension of the prohibition and yet offer no halakha on the prohibition itself, the "eating" of blood? All those dubs dying in hospitals needing blood transfusions, I wonder how many of them like eating their steaks rare?
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A question for bible scholars.....It's a REAL hard one!
by gumby inwhere does the name "israel come from?
(the answer is intresting if you know) .
gumby
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Leolaia
Well, it depends. As you know from Noah's Flood creationism (which requires only "kinds" to be put into the ark), microevolution can work super fast! In the last month, I think I've evolved considerably.
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A question for bible scholars.....It's a REAL hard one!
by gumby inwhere does the name "israel come from?
(the answer is intresting if you know) .
gumby
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Leolaia
Oh crap, there goes my 888th post. :_(
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A question for bible scholars.....It's a REAL hard one!
by gumby inwhere does the name "israel come from?
(the answer is intresting if you know) .
gumby
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Leolaia
One of the sources I got this info. from was from the book "The Christ Conspiracy" by Acharya S.
Who is probably not a philologist. There is a lot of bad philology that gets passed around and taken as fact (cf. Zecharia Stitchen for another good example, and all the countless people trying to link Basque and Sumerian to some other language on the flimsiest of evidence). The example you gave sounds almost as far-fetched as those who interpret "British" to mean "Man of the Covenant" (< Heb. brt -'sh). I would strongly recommend consulting reference works on philology and PNs before accepting an etymology as fact, especially by a non-specialist. I doubt very much a professional philologist would find the strange explanation of "Israel" as acceptable.
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A question for bible scholars.....It's a REAL hard one!
by gumby inwhere does the name "israel come from?
(the answer is intresting if you know) .
gumby
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Leolaia
The best interpretation may well be "El Strives", as the deity is usually conceived of as agentive unless the verb expresses subservience, worship, or similar concept (see the examples in my post above). There is a parallel in the third-millenium BC tablets from Ebla, where we encounter the PN Ishra-NI "NI Strives" (ARET 2:#28xvi:4), where "NI" is a Sumerogram standing in for the theophoric element. That NI can represent ilu "El" can be seen in the PN Mara-NI (ARET 2:109), which correponds to the Ugaritic name mr'l, cf. Mara-'el. Israel thus appears to have been well-formed Semitic name of some antiquity. It is of similar form as Ishma-el "El Hears," which is paralleled by the Eblaite Ishma-Damu "Damu Hears," and Ishma-Zikir "Zikir Hears" (ARET 3:287), which are also men's names.