what does creationism explain?.
what does it predict?.
what about blind cave fish with residual eyes.
Rem said, "Remember, most, if not all, of us were creationists before doing the research and seeing the problems with the bible creation story and the explanitory power of the evolutionary model."
For anyone who wants to do a little "research" check this website out:
www.origins.org
Fell and Landed
i don't know if anyone here listens to dr. joy but i love her show and most of the time agree with her advice.
well, today i grew some balls and decided to call in and ask her what she thought i should do in my current situation (which is probably the closest i will come to seeking professional advice).
i never mentioned the name of the "religious group" in which my husband was involved, but i informed her about some of the things that they believe and how it was affecting my marriage and family.
Just for some perspective as a child....
I was raised a JW from birth. My parents got in as adults. They grew up with the holidays etc. They never had to face a teacher and a class of kids and explain why they couldn't salute the flag. They didn't have to sit alone in some place doing work while other kids had fun doing holiday activities. They have no idea how bad I felt about myself because I longed to participate or to have someone acknowledge they were happy I was born.
I felt from a very early age, 5 or 6, that Jehovah knew how I felt and that he would never let me into the new system. I hid all that and put on a good front for years.
I have two sisters and a brother. We all came through being raised JW's damaged. All of us have had problems like depression, substance abuse, etc. until we got out and got help. Except one of my sisters who is currently in and out of the state mental lock down from suicide attempts. She still feels hopeless. The other three of us have all found hope, peace, and healing. Our lives are and have been stable since we put our trust in God himself by way of Jesus NOT an organization.
These verses explain what I mean by that, verses that opened my eyes and heart to the peace I now have:
Romans 12:1-2 "There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the spirit of Christ has set you free from the law of sin and death."
2 Corinthians 5:21, "He made him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf that we might become the righteousness of God in Him."
Titus 3:5, "He saved us not on the basis of deeds done in righteousness, but according to His mercy...."
1 John 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; and He Himself is the propitiation (satisfaction, or payment made in full) for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the whole world."
1 John 5:13, "These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know you have eternal life."
I write all this in order to plead with you to put yourself on your childs level and try to understand the kind of life he or she will face ... one of condemnation, working and never being good enough, or even facing death from having lifesaving blood withheld. And it's a long journey towards healing later in life if they are lucky enough to get out. My sister let my parents take her two kids to the meetings and read the books to them when they were elementary school age. It turns out her daughter has some of the same problems with feeling condemned.
I wish my parents would have looked into what they were getting their family into. They went about it like buying a car without checking under the hood to see if there was even an engine before handing over all their money! They never questioned any of it and still don't. We are all lost as far as they and the organization are concerned. Three of us are free though and hopefully all of us will be someday.
Sorry I got kind of long on this ... I got a feeling of urgency like those of rushing into a burning building to save a child from danger.
Fell and Landed
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are born agains qualified to help jw's?.
i don't think so.sorry if you are one i have nothing against you personnally, nor jw's come to think of it, but offering your version of truth to jw's is for them to jump out of the frying pan into the fire.. the bible is the root of jw problems , and following that book in which ever way you wish will always be in error..
JT,
I'm sorry I didn't explain myself well. I always thought my problem was with some other group or denomination until I came to the realization my problem wasn't with other people but Jesus and what he said.
I had never read his words and claims about himself without someone, namely the WTS, telling me what he was saying. I was challenged to read the book of John by itself. I did and that's when things began to unravel for me.
I had three choices as I saw it; believe in what the WTS told me it said, believe what Jesus said at face value, or throw them both out. It wasn't a flippant decision; it was gut wrenching ... for I risked being rejected by my parents. In the end I chose to take Jesus' words at face value. I suffered loss for it, but I don't regret it.
As I see it, I gained something I can't put a price on. I joined myself to Jesus because I figured if he thought I was worth dying for, he was worth believing in. No one had ever put that kind of value on me. It was free to me but cost him a lot. It was an offer I couldn't refuse.
As to the hell question. What would I say? If I accept that God made the universe and all that's in it, and say I don't want anything to do with him, taking into account that he says he is light and love and all that, then hell must be the absence of God and all he made. Where does that leave me? I guess the absence of him must be hell. But it's my choice. No one has foisted it on me.
Edited by - Parousia on 15 September 2002 19:43:26
how many of the following types did you have in your home cong.?
the leader(s).
(this is the only one not likely to be found in the local congregation, at least not for long.
What would you call the guy who gave the talk on ... masterba ... err... you know what I mean, but went up on stage with his fly down ... while his wife tried desperately to get his attention as descretely as possible to do something about it ... while his teenage daughter (me)tried to slide under her seat unnoticed??!!
We were new to the congregation and Dad was trying so hard to make a good impression.... Heehee
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are born agains qualified to help jw's?.
i don't think so.sorry if you are one i have nothing against you personnally, nor jw's come to think of it, but offering your version of truth to jw's is for them to jump out of the frying pan into the fire.. the bible is the root of jw problems , and following that book in which ever way you wish will always be in error..
I feel bad that some of us have left such a bad taste in the mouth.... As a former JW and now a BA, I apologize for my fellows BA's lack of love and grace.
I personally had a problem with this whole born-again concept until I realized Who I was arguing with.... Wasn't it Jesus who coined the phrase "born-again?"
Jesus said in John 3:3,7,8, "Most truly I say to you, unless anyone is born again, he can see the kingdom of God.... Do not marvel because I told you, you must be born-again. The wind blows where it wants to, and you hear the sound of it, but you do not know where it come from and where it is going. So is everyone who is born of the spirit." NWT
Notice Jesus explains why and how a few verses later, "For God so loved the world that he gave his only-begotton Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life." NWT
And, yes, I've seen some loving BA's really touch the lives of some hurting JW's, and they weren't EXJW's either. BA's can help JW's if they do it like Jesus did ... and aren't afraid to wash some feet.
Fell and Landed
jehovah's witnesses.
ed decker lecture notes.
i want to deal with the very important subject of the watchtower bible and tract society headquartered in brooklyn, new york.
Trot,
Not sure about the caps question, but I like these verses.
One problem JW's have with the First and Last being Jesus is the OT cross reference to the verse in Isaiah 44:6, "This is what Jehovah has said, the King of Isreal and the Repurchaser of him, Jehovah of armies, 'I am the first and I am the last , and besides me there is no God.'"
Put this with the context of Rev. 1:8, 1:17-18; 22:12-13 speaking of Christ and what do you come up with?
These are some of my favorite passages to question JW's at my door with.
Fell and Landed
jehovah's witnesses.
ed decker lecture notes.
i want to deal with the very important subject of the watchtower bible and tract society headquartered in brooklyn, new york.
Thank you for putting all the effort into typing this up for us.
Speaking of witnessing to JW's when they come to the door, I have had some interesting experienes talking to them. One guy looked at me after I had him read Rev. 1:8 and 1:17-18 in the TWT, and I could see a look of realization flicker in his eyes.
His wife who was sitting next to him on the couch (I had invited them in) nearly came unglued. She realized I knew too much to be just an interested person.... Then she nearly drug him out of there. I could see her yelling at him all the way to their car. He turned and looked back at me one last time. I'll never forget that look. He knew.
They sat in their car for a while. It looked like she was really letting him have it. I found out later that she had been a JW for over twenty years and he had only been in a few years. His niece had been praying for them. I've lost touch, and I don't know what ever happened to them.
The experience encouraged me because I've had others that were kind of frightening ... like being screamed at and called names by an elder. I told him I would pray for him though and that I loved him in Christ. He didn't know how to answer that. The young man with him stood transfixed at my door and had to be coaxed away. He had the same look the guy I mentioned above had ... like for a brief minute he could see.
I do this because I hope that someone out there is doing the same for me ... if it's my Mom or Dad at your door.
Fell and Landed
most of you know about my mother, she passed away from this world 17 yrs ago tomorrow, sept. 15, 1985. her passing was very hard on my sister and me , because it was a suicide.
she had been a witness for 16 years and even almost died standing up for the blood issue in 1983, due to a stomach ulcer, and too many asprins.
her blood count went down to 2 and she had to be put in a lear jet to get to houston, tx.
Hi, I'm new here ... your story touched my heart, and Happy Birthday to your son! I'm glad you are celebrating him today. Kids need to know we are happy they were born. Some of us adults also needed to know somebody was happy when we were born and that we are loved. People deprived of love die inside. No wonder they give up.
I wonder how many more there are out there like your Mom.
Fell and Landed
everyone here seems to know a lot about jw history, but when i ask my friend (who was a convert) they don't seem to know too much.
do they teach a church history class on sundays or during the week?
(just curious...seems funny that my friend would convert from catholicism without knowing too much of the history)
My memory is the same as Dia's. I remember as a kid memorizing Isaiah 43:10, "You are my witnesses..." We had to be the truth! We were in the Bible. It didn't say, "You are my Catholics or Episcopals..." That's all I needed as a kid. The thought that we weren't in direct line from Abraham, Moses, and the rest never occurred to me. When I was challenged with information about JW history later on, I viewed it with the same seriousness I would give if someone would have told me little green men from Mars had just landed on earth. Somebody smart somewhere had the answers to all of it. I was sure of it!
Fell and Landed
so how many of you have or had cottages as dubs?
now do any of you recall any families having them in your hall?.
now if so did these families retreat to these locations during the summer months?.
I decided my first post should be on something non-controversial. Although I have enjoyed reading with great interest those that are. I must get my feet wet sometime so here goes ....
Yes, I knew a sister who inherited a cottage. So it wasn't her fault! I was, err, lucky enough to be invited there for a weekend once when I was about twelve. Make no mistake, that sister didn't use that cottage for anything pagan. No sir. She made sure we didn't over-recreate. As I recall, I reported more hours of service that weekend than I ever had before. I managed to find reasons to turn down future invitations. It was more fun than a kid could handle I guess....
