Posts by czarofmischief

160

Why ? Why? WHY???

by rune in

jw
friends

this topic has been rolling around in my head for some time.

i don't expect that i'll write it perfectly as it needs to be articulated in different ways for different people...but i will do my best.

and worst of all, i am not expecting any kind of response that will satisfy me.

czarofmischief

What do YOU want to hear ? That I agree with what you call proofs ? There isn't any proof and, nothing logical in what you said !

I don't need to hear anything, FBB. That's my point. I cannot prove anything to you. I was just curious what exactly it would take to prove God to you, personally.

Remember, the original question was Why do people keep believing in God? I tried to explain why as best as I could, but maybe I can't even do that. I'm not very good at this sort of thing, really.

What common bases were you talking about? I'm confused.

CZAR

21

Watchtower Dominated Company Does Military Work

by metatron in

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/041206/home_solutions_air_force_1.html.

i don't know the capital structure but as the 8-k says the wts of pennsylvania owns a lot of this small company.. .

metatron

I, um, don't see what is so scandalous - of course they are a business enterprise, but they are only cleaning a military base; what's so bad about that? I don't recall any strict rules about that kind of thing.

CZAR

22

Ozzie's Weekend Poll #123

by ozziepost in

jw
friends

how's this weekend going for you?

stinking hot downunder - and humid too.

really draining weather - y'know what i mean?.

czarofmischief

Boredom. It was the only thing I was allowed to do, and it was fun when you were out crusing around with some ofthe other guys, talking about football and making return visits on a Sundy afternoon.

CZAR

56

APOSTATES SLOGAN------------------

by vitty in

jw
friends

.

-----------someone was going to an assembly to picket, and asked you to write an slogan which would really make a witness think or question what would you write?

czarofmischief

Jehovah's Witnesses Are a Snare and a Racket!

and

MIllions Now Living will Never Learn!

CZAR

160

Why ? Why? WHY???

by rune in

jw
friends

this topic has been rolling around in my head for some time.

i don't expect that i'll write it perfectly as it needs to be articulated in different ways for different people...but i will do my best.

and worst of all, i am not expecting any kind of response that will satisfy me.

czarofmischief

Czar, I've considered posting here... by why should I when you have simply read my mind-- and then fully revised it so it is so organized and concise? (Ummm, should I be paying you for that??...) You are a veritable screwball, besides.

Yep. I read Bebu's mind. Pretty racy stuff... LOL! Believe me, that chapter about the water balloons was payment enough

Merry Christmas, everybody!

CZAR

160

Why ? Why? WHY???

by rune in

jw
friends

this topic has been rolling around in my head for some time.

i don't expect that i'll write it perfectly as it needs to be articulated in different ways for different people...but i will do my best.

and worst of all, i am not expecting any kind of response that will satisfy me.

czarofmischief

see we ain't going nowhere ... you still haven proven anything ... (we could have stayed on common bases but NO you don't want to ...) ok then ... but I know all what you've told me NOTHING NEW ... SAME OLD WHATEVER !!!

What do you want to hear? What kind of "new thing" could I tell you? If you are looking for proof of Creation, then a scientist could tell you eight million more amazing things than the things I know about. If you are looking for proof that we did not evolve purely by chance, then a psychologist or a neurosurgeon would be able to tell you a million amazing things about our brain, body, and our higher reasoning abilities.

If you want to hear about visions, miracles, answered prayers... wouldn't you condemn me as being delusional? Even if you had a vision yourself, wouldn't you doubt the evidence of your own senses and check yourself into a mental hospital rather than change your worldview ? and even if you believed it, wouldn't you promptly get angry that God doesn't do that for EVERYBODY? Why he lets bad things happen on this earth?

The answer is I can't prove anything to you. Which is humbling for me. To admit that my faith is competely mine and nobody else's (although the czarina also believes like I do, based on the evidence of our shared experiences). Maybe that is why God is so individual about it: to keep the believers from feeling like they are some kind of uber-mensch. And frankly, I have no interest in proving anything. I entered this discussion to talk about WHY people believe what they believe. I am going to try another tack, here.

But common bases? You know, I think that the Leftists really shot themselves in the foot when they discarded all religion, religious expression, and the bible. They agitate constantly for change but promptly tossed away the purest motivation for it: spirituality. The greatest protection for the poor is summed up in words that are almost universally accepted as being from God, "Love your neighbor as yourself."

Just look at the results! Slavery in America ended as a result of Biblethumpers denouncing the inhuman treatment of our fellow man - which motivated the masses of Northern soldiers. Usury laws, which keep our credit cards at a max of 21 percent, are based on Old Testament prejudices against lending at interest. One black preacher accomplished, with fine Christian rhetoric, the civil changes that fifty years of Communist agitation completely failed to produce. Even evil people, like Stalin, had to accept that religion could motivate what mere self-interest could not... and made a deal with the Orthodox priests to help defend Russia in WW2.

I'm just saying, our common base, whether you believe it word for word or not, is the Bible. It is the cornerstone of our culture. If we talk in Bible terms, we can communicate higher purposes to each other. The only other motivation that is as pure as the spiritual is self-preservation. And that has a completely different set of priorites.

CZAR

160

Why ? Why? WHY???

by rune in

jw
friends

this topic has been rolling around in my head for some time.

i don't expect that i'll write it perfectly as it needs to be articulated in different ways for different people...but i will do my best.

and worst of all, i am not expecting any kind of response that will satisfy me.

czarofmischief

Also, but that's truly personnal, I don't think we need to believe in god to be a good person ... (you have them both sides, and to me most are) so can we focus only on the good (BE POSITIVE and PRO ACTIVE) instead of Focus on "hypothetical" GODs in knowing where it leads ??? what would A COHERENT AND LOVING GOD want ?

I don't deny that atheists or agnostics can be good people. I know this to be true. Just look at you!

BUT! This thread is about WHY people believe in God; as opposed to proving that God exists. Therefore, the lists of reasons including Dansk's testimonial, LittleToe's defense of Dansk, and me pointing out the inherent fallacy of "absolute proof" of God.

It has been my experience, and LIttleToe's experience, and Dansk's experience that the proof of God is ALWAYS truly personal. It makes sense (to me) that it is that way: That way those who truly don't need God don't have to deal with him. But I believe that he is always there when we do.

Calvin talked a lot, in his arrogant and pedantic way, about the Elect. How GOD does the choosing about when, where, and how to reveal himself to EACH individual. It makes a lot of sense to me, as a believer, as to how people can go through their lives and NEVER believe. They just weren't chosen. I disagree firmly about the notion of a fiery hell, but I think that life on earth can be hellish enough if we don't cling to SOMETHING - what if hell was just Earth without ANY good people and no way to die or escape?

And Jesus' parable of the shepherd who went to great lengths to rescue one sheep when he had 99 more tells me that God is going to do everything he can to save each and every individual. Which is a great relief to the believer: we are not responsible for saving anybody else, not even ourselves. God will tend to them in due time.

More than that, even if they went to Hell, it is standard Christian doctrine that Christ has the keys to that place, whatever and wherever it is: he has gone there to rescue people before, and could very well do it again... maybe in the fullness of eternity Hell will be empty completely as people slowly are redeemed, one by one.

But this is where I am coming from: I wanted to explain how the doctrine of the Elect could actually be a very humble and inclusive idea; while it sounds arrogant to say: God has shown himself to me and not to you, it makes better sense when I say that God has not shown himself to you YET. I also wanted to point out that the "truly personal" aspect of the proof of God is exactly what convinces believers so thoroughly. that is why I was curious if you even had an idea of what God's proof to you might be? You certainly don't have to tell me, and these proofs tend to sound silly even to fellow believers - but it seems that you already have an idea what I am talking about.

I'm sure we will have this conversation again (maybe in French someday!). Eternity is a long time, sweetie...

CZAR

160

Why ? Why? WHY???

by rune in

jw
friends

this topic has been rolling around in my head for some time.

i don't expect that i'll write it perfectly as it needs to be articulated in different ways for different people...but i will do my best.

and worst of all, i am not expecting any kind of response that will satisfy me.

czarofmischief

I would not care if he was (actually) just NO PROOF

I'm here, ain't I? Look upon me, and marvel, ye mortals!

So you want proof? What would it take to convince you? I notice that Rune didn't answer that question either. What proof, specifically, in your own life (you can't use somebody else's problems as a measuring stick) would you need, or want?

CZAR

49

What Are Things That Make You Feel Uncomfortable???

by minimus in

jw
friends

you know what i hate??

when you're talking to someone and instead of acknowledging you or whatever you're saying, they just stare.

czarofmischief

When there is a crime in the neighborhood. Nervous nervous nervous.

Also when people assume about my beliefs from my appearance. When my hair was long a lady was bugging me about getting active regarding global warming. And then i finally shouted that there was no concrete evidence for the notion and she got really pissy.

CZAR

160

Why ? Why? WHY???

by rune in

jw
friends

this topic has been rolling around in my head for some time.

i don't expect that i'll write it perfectly as it needs to be articulated in different ways for different people...but i will do my best.

and worst of all, i am not expecting any kind of response that will satisfy me.

czarofmischief

FBB, he wanted to know why? Why? WHY??? do we still believe? We tried to tell him. But he'll just have to learn on his own.

That is why I support Runes (and some others way) as being proactive, and way more effective when it comes to get the point on logical/objective bases. (that we are not allowed to dismisse as logical and objective) but that's what people want to do and then they cry because he/she/whoever is able to make a point in dissmissing there's... of course ... WHY ? ... well it's logical or objective ... see you can't fight the logic and objectivity very long that's just irrational ...)

Okay, he started from an advanced point in the discussion. Sure. Okay. But we as believers can't answer his question without going back to rethink conclusions he has already made. Unless he intended this thread to be a believer basher, where those of like mind get together to reinforce their conclusions. In which case I apologize for intruding.

Besides, God is a white Christian American male with a rebel flag and a deer in the back of his pickup. Everyone knows that...

CZAR