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Jonadab
JoinedPosts by Jonadab
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Who exactly is "JW" here?
by ScoobySnax inrecognising that this board is mainly for ex-jws/anti-jws/in the process of leaving/......... i'm interested to know how many here out of the thousands that post are pro-jw (or wt apologists to be more politically correct here) be that inactive/active, but still holding to the faith.
(p.s.
i'm not a p.o/c.o/ member of the gb either before u ask!
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Lurkers
by Yizuman inseems that the page view out number the posters who actually reply to the thread.. my guess is that there's alot of active jws who are still active within' the so called "truth" are visiting this forum and reading all the threads.
i don't blame them for not wanting to reply for fear of being found out.. how many of you were still active when you found a forum like this one and lurked around for a long time?
how many of you left the organization as a result of reading this forum or other forums like it?.
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Jonadab
larc said:
You believe, I take it, that Witnesses are happier.
Not at all. I have met some very happy people who aren't JW's and I have met some very unhappy people who are JW's. The thing that makes these JW's unhappy isn't that of being one of Jehovah's Witnesses. Nor does the fact that some people are very happy have anything to do with the fact that they aren't Jehovah's Witnesses. We are all subject to the same pressures of living under present conditions. This is an undeniable fact. Some of us are under stresses that others aren't and we all have different personalities and backgrounds to deal with. That being said, even researchers have found that those with 'religion' in their lives tend to be more content and settled as they have a belief to hold onto and a hope for the future, whatever that may be.
I have never considered myself to be a happy person, but I must say that being one of Jehovah's Witnesses has given me hope for the future and something to live for. I am sure that if I didn't have the truth I would probably be dead now. I am content with my life at the present, but even if things went downhill for me it wouldn't worry me to the extent that it might otherwise. As long as I have my faith and a hope for the future I can go on as long as need be.
BTW, thanks for the welcome. :)
Yizuman said:
If I may add to this, "Going to church doesn't make you a Christian anymore than going to McDonald's makes you a hamburger."
LOL. You got that right!!!
Ozzie said:
I'm sure your motives are sincere, but I must ask, what on earth makes you think that you have something to offer those who have left the borg?
It isn't me that has something to offer, it's Jehovah.
Now that they (those who've left) have experienced real freedom, why on earth would they want to go back? Why take second best?
None of us has 'real' freedom. Freedom is limited by laws of nature, laws of society(gov't) and laws of God. Only Jehovah has true freedom. If we go against the laws that have been established we are likely to experience the consequences of our actions.
If you believe the WTS, then I must tell you, you have been blinded too.
I'm not blind. I see things quite clearly.
hurt said:
Since I've always been solitary, somewhat, I believed I wouldn't miss people. But I do. May be I was happier when an active witness; that'll be true if the pressure of field service were removed.
I'm somewhat of an isolationist myself, but I do enjoy the association too. Being active in the truth has given me joy. Even field service is a source of joy to me. It is one of the times I actually feel happy. It isn't an easy thing to do though. It isn't easy knocking on peoples doors knowing the response you usually get. The joy comes from knowing you are trying to help your neighbors with information that will benefit them. Also doing what Jehovah asks us to do is a source of joy. Field service is harder for some than for others, there is no denying that. Could we really call ourselves foot-step followers of Jesus if we didn't do what he commanded? (Matt.24:14, 28:19,20)
But I feel a greater joy at being free from the shackles of the Watchtower. I am undecided on how to place the two on some scale, and where the balance tilts. It's a mixed bag. But a man must do what a man must do. To continue to actively support an organization that's been shown to be what the WTS has been shown to be desecrates something in my humanity. That, I can't compare to anything else.
A man can't sit on the fence and be comfortable. You need to get answers to your questions. If after getting your questions answered you truly believe the WTS is wrong then you need to do what a man must do. I hope that the elders are able to give you the answers and support you need.
deddaisy said:
Jonadab, I believe there is most likely a higher force of some kind, I can't honestly say that I feel this force is the God of the Bible. I feel somehow, how we live our lives, whether it be refusing to compromise our values, or spending our time making someone smile, is more important than "who" or what God is.
I no longer agree with any WTS teachings, accept maybe the denial of the trinity, but having all the answers is not of consequence to me so even that really is not of enough importance to me to debate. What is to be, will be. What I do know is that I am much more respectful towards life now than when I attended meetings.
Thank you for your honest reply christina.
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Lurkers
by Yizuman inseems that the page view out number the posters who actually reply to the thread.. my guess is that there's alot of active jws who are still active within' the so called "truth" are visiting this forum and reading all the threads.
i don't blame them for not wanting to reply for fear of being found out.. how many of you were still active when you found a forum like this one and lurked around for a long time?
how many of you left the organization as a result of reading this forum or other forums like it?.
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Jonadab
deddaisy said:
I didn't mean to go on so, and I hope I didn't come across as argumentative, that certainly wasn't my intent.You sound like a very nice person and I welcome you.
peace, christina
Thanks Christina. No, you didn't come across as argumentative. I didn't expect that my posting here would be met with open arms by some and I didn't expect my thoughts to find mass appeal either. I will admit to being a firm believer and I'm not here looking for answers to doctrinal questions or debating Society policy. I'm not looking for an argument at all.
I guess one of my main reasons for being here is to see why some of you chose to leave the organization. I know that some here have never been one of Jehovah's Witnesses. The ones that I am curious about are the ones that were and chose to leave for whatever reason. I know that there have been congregations where things aren't what they are supposed to be. I have seen some hurt and leave feeling that God would not let these things happen if this was his organization. I guess I am trying to understand so that I can help those who have been hurt or are drifting away.
I care about people. I don't feel that leaving the truth is the answer. I truly believe that this IS the truth, in spite of what I have read here and elsewhere. I am not blind to things that have gone on in the past, nor do I make excuses for the imperfections of others or failed expectations as regards certain dates.
I do have a few questions that I wouldn't mind an answer to from those who were baptized/unbaptized publishers and then left. How many of you felt that you had a close personal relationship with Jehovah before bapism and after? How do you feel about your relationship with Jehovah now? Do you feel that you still have one or has your faith/belief in God been destroyed?
onacruse said:
And many other Biblical accounts as well make it so clear that simply being an Israelite did not guarantee God's blessing, and simply not being an Israelite was not in and of itself a barrier to God's blessing.
Membership in any religion is no more than having a library card; it all depends on if and how you use it.
Thanks for your comment Craig, I fully agree. Just because one is a dedicated, baptized member of Jehovah's Witnesses is no guarantee of God's blessing either. Some tend to wear this like a lucky talisman and it isn't one at all. Our relationship with Jehovah is a personal one. We all need to find out what God requires of us and do it. We all need to establish a relationship with him in the process. Being 'a' Jehovah's Witness is no guarantee of survival at Armageddon. Only those who who are truly witnesses of Jehovah and doing his will can hope to have his favor. We are not the judges of who this will include or will not include. This assignment has been given to Jesus.
I look forward to your comments and posting here on occassion.
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Lurkers
by Yizuman inseems that the page view out number the posters who actually reply to the thread.. my guess is that there's alot of active jws who are still active within' the so called "truth" are visiting this forum and reading all the threads.
i don't blame them for not wanting to reply for fear of being found out.. how many of you were still active when you found a forum like this one and lurked around for a long time?
how many of you left the organization as a result of reading this forum or other forums like it?.
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Jonadab
Have u heard whut curiousity did to the cat?
LOL. Yes, I've heard.
I am now happier and emotionally healthier than I EVER EVER EVER was as a JW.
I'm sorry to hear that you had such a bad experience being a JW and that you felt the need to leave to have happiness and emotional health. That isn't the way it's supposed to be if everyone is following Christian principles. From what we read in Revelation about some of those 7 congregations it seems that there was trouble back there too. That didn't mean that it wasn't Jehovah's organization or that Jehovah didn't know or care about what was going on. The fact that the information is recorded for us to read indicates that Jehovah and Jesus knew what was happening and would correct matters in their own time.
I think too about High Priest Eli and his 2 sons and what was happening right there in the temple. What effect did this have on those who witnessed these events? What effect did it have on young Samuel? Samuel remained faithful during that period while others probably had their faith erroded. Who came out of the situation better off? Who had Jehovah's blessing?
Jonadab, I can't answer for others, but the ones I personally know that have left the organization that have regrets are the ones that ultimately had to choose between losing their families, or pretending to be part of an organization that they no longer believed in their hearts to be God's organization.
I can't say that I know what that feels like. All my family is in the truth. I don't doubt for a minute that the pain of choosing ones change of beliefs over that of family association is very real and heart-rending. I have known those who were disowned by family for becoming one of Jehovah's Witnesses. That must have been painful too. I do believe that disfellowshipping or shunning is correct and scriptural nonetheless. It may be hard on all involved, but then I think it must have been hard for those of Korah's family who separated themselves from him to make that choice too. Noah must have had family, other than his wife and sons, who he left behind. Capital punishment was a part of Israelite law. There was no opportunity to repent and return once punishment was meted out. At least now with disfellowshipping there is a chance of a return. Both were/are part of Jehovah's arrangement.
I appreciate your feelings Christina. I do understand the need for support. I'm sorry that you didn't find what you were looking for at the Kingdom Hall. May you have peace.
I'm sorry to disillusion you, but, brother, this just ain't true! Have you ever checked out the type of Bible teaching to be found elsewhere? If you have, I'm sure that you'd find that, far from the WTS being the only source of true Bible knowledge, it's quite surprising how much spiritual feeding is taking place in other places, such as churches.
Ozzie, I am very well aware of the type of spiritual feeding that is to be found elsewhere. That is why I am still one of Jehovah's Witnesses. I have examined my faith thoroughly, even the thoughts of those who disagree with us, and my faith is stronger because of my research. There are many types of foods we can feed on. Not all are good for us though. Some can fill us with empty calories and end up killing us. Imagine that! A full belly, but starving ourselves. That has been going on spiritually too.
And in your heart, you know that you have doubts, don't you?
I'm sorry to disappoint you Ozzie, but I have no doubts and that is not why I lurk.
How do you feel about the revised "generation" teaching?
To be very honest it made perfect sense to me. I lived through the 1975 era and so I am familiar with the thoughts of many who believed that this was going to be 'it'. I never thought that 1975 was a 'done deal'. When that year came and went it had no adverse effect on my beliefs. I wasn't serving Jehovah with a deadline. I'm in it for the long term. The updated understanding of 'generation' didn't come as a shock to me then. It wasn't the big change that some have made it out to be. It was a refinement of understanding, not a huge spiritual hurdle to get over. Some have choked on it and lost their faith, thinking that Armageddon has been delayed. I don't see it that way. Armageddon is coming, but in Jehovah's due time, not ours.
No, my brother, you're only kidding yourself if you believe that the WTS is the "hand that feeds".
I never kid myself Ozzie.
I won't even try to respond to Farkel's diatribe, except to say 'out of the heart's abundance....'
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Lurkers
by Yizuman inseems that the page view out number the posters who actually reply to the thread.. my guess is that there's alot of active jws who are still active within' the so called "truth" are visiting this forum and reading all the threads.
i don't blame them for not wanting to reply for fear of being found out.. how many of you were still active when you found a forum like this one and lurked around for a long time?
how many of you left the organization as a result of reading this forum or other forums like it?.
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Jonadab
I'm active and always will be. I lurk, but know I probably shouldn't. There isn't anything here that really surprises me. I know all the arguements from the 'other side of the coin'. I can see why some have left in disgust at the treatment that they have received at the hands of some uncaring individuals(elders). This isn't the norm by any stretch of the imagination. I had problems where I was before, but I am very happy in my present location. I don't believe that the elders I had problems with were 'evil', just imperfect. I still talk to them when I see them, although they may feel uncomfortable with me. That's their problem and they will have to deal with it.
From reading many of the posts from those of you who have left the organization I don't honestly see that you are any happier or better off then you were before. That is my honest observation. Many here seem bitter and spiteful. If being one of Jehovah's Witnesses was such a painful experience for you wouldn't it be better for you to stay as far away from anything to do with them as possible? Many of you seem to be drawn to this site to 'bite the hand that once fed you' spiritually. I don't see the point.
I don't look at all the threads here. I do browse to see if there is anything that interests me. Color me curious. I am amazed at times by the 'inside' information that is posted. There is often news links that I haven't found elsewhere. I probably will never post much. I doubt that I would have much to say that most of you would agree with or want to hear anyways.
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The Beards of JWD (pure unadulterated Fri. fluff)
by nilfun inwhy do the jws frown upon beards?
hey, they're positively biblical!.
plus, i think they look great!
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Jonadab
I have a beard, pics of me at www.joelbear.com
Nice beard Joel, but could you shave your back?
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Update from Ray Franz
by Amazing inlast night, after my post regarding ray franz comments of bill bowen's posted statements, i received a good number of email and phone calls.
one item consistently surfaced regarding ray's assignment to write the chapter in the book, organization for kingdom preaching and disciple-making, by the title of safeguarding the cleanness of the congregation.
in the chapter, the "two witness" rule was outlined.
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Jonadab
In response to Nathan's question about Greenlees, I once asked Ray the question whether Greenlees was resigned because of homosexuality. His response was: "tendencies, tendencies." I then asked him, but no specific incidents? He replied, "No." Not that he had any knowledge of.
~Ros
I find it hard to believe this, but nothing is impossible I suppose. I met Leo Greenlees on a number of occassions. He had been a friend of our family since the 1930's. I had never gotten the impression that he had 'tendencies', nor had anyone else in my family. I was under the understanding that he did have a bit of a problem with alcohol and that was the reason for his leaving Bethel.
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Facial hair
by SpannerintheWorks intake a look at an earlier thread i started.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=36501&site=3.
even ct russell had a beard!!!
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Jonadab
We had a CO many years ago who, before coming to our circuit, made some
very strong statements against beards Saturday afternoon of the circuit assembly program. The DO felt the need in his closing talk the next day to retract what the CO had said and stated that some things that are said from the platform are the speaker's personal opinion and not necessarily backed by the Society.
There is nothing wrong with a neat well trimmed beard in many localities today. There are still some who are strong-minded on the subject and congregation conscience is a factor in making decisions as to whether a brother with a beard will be used or not. Sometimes though, the congregation is not bothered by the beard, but the elders are too afraid to make a decision that may be called into question by a CO with a strong personal dislike for beards.
Edited by - Jonadab on 3 October 2002 16:44:59
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Facial hair
by SpannerintheWorks intake a look at an earlier thread i started.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=36501&site=3.
even ct russell had a beard!!!
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Jonadab
I believe that beards were frowned on due to the hippie period of the 1960's. If you were to ask the Society what the present stance is on beards you would be told that there is nothing scripturally wrong with a brother having a beard and that the elders are free to use a brother in the congregation. I know of a ministerial servant with a beard and have heard of several elders with beards. Although it isn't common beards don't have the same stigma they once did.
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watchtower double talk
by needs_lots incygnus; .
i read with amazement your post in defence of the watch tower pr release.
i do want to know which bethel you are stationed at and how long it has been since you stepped outside the walls of the compound.
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Jonadab
Quote: As far as reporting , the elder who eventually reported the matter was immediatly removed as an elder for being strong willed and then later DF'd for being unreasonable.
Are you referring to Frank Mott-Trille? I thought that he was df'd for misappropriation and misapplication of funds, including $45,000 of the Canadian branch's money. At least that is what he got disbarred for doing according to the Ontario Lawyers Gazette.
I am sorry for what Vicki had to go through. No one should have to go through abuse at the hands of anyone. I was abused by 2 teenaged boys when I was 11 and not a day goes by that I don't think about it. Neither one is a JW now, nor were they doing anything about the truth back then. Their parents are though. I never told anyone about what happened for the next 30 years. My wife knows as does my sister.