Posts by AndDontCallMeShirley

34

Why are you looking forward to 1872? Er, 1873? Um...1874? Oh, I mean 1975?

by AndDontCallMeShirley in

"why are you looking forward to 1872?".

.. "in this chapter we present the bible evidence which indicates that six thousand years from the creation of adam were complete with a.d. 1872; and hence that, since a.d. 1872 are chronologically entered upon the seventh thousand or the millennium.

" (studies in the scriptures, vol.

AndDontCallMeShirley

NE: I thought the whole 1975 debacle was OUR fault?

Apparently, it was:

Prior to 1975:

"Yes, the end of this system is so very near! Is that not reason to increase our activity?...Reports are heard of brothers selling their homes and property and planning to finish out the rest of their days in this old system in the pioneer service. Certainly this is a fine way to spend the short time remaining before the wicked world's end." (Kingdom Ministry, May 1974, p. 3)

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After the 1975 failure:

"It may be that some who have been serving God have planned their lives according to a mistaken view of just what was to happen on a certain date or in a certain year. They may have, for this reason, put off or neglected things that they otherwise would have cared for. But they have missed the point of the Bibles warnings concerning the end of this system of things, thinking that Bible chronology reveals the specific date." (Watchtower, July 15, 1976, p. 440)

"....Since certain expectations were not realized, many stumbled and returned to the ways of the world..." (Choosing The Best Way Of Life; 1979; p. 169)

"Again, in 1975, there was disappointment when expectations regarding the start of the Millennium failed to materialize. As a result, some withdrew from the organization…. Although these tests resulted in a sifting… others remained firm. Why?… ‘Those who had set their confidence in Jehovah remained steadfast and continued their preaching activity.’"—Proclaimers, p. 63

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Underlying message: "if you were gullible enough to believe us (WT), then it's your own damn fault you were disappointed".

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Or, as a last resort, WT can simply blame god for the errors. After all, He is the source of WT's information:

" Similarly today, a Governing Body composed of spirit-anointed Christians contributes to the unity of the worldwide congregation. The Governing Bodypublishes spiritually encouraging literature in many languages. This spiritual food is based on God's Word. Thus, what is taught is not from men but from Jehovah.-Isa. 54:13." --- W 9-15-2010

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And, WT cannot use its "get out of jail free" card and say it's all acceptable because they were, after all, being sincere:

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"Since the Bible was completed and "inspiration" is no longer necessary, a true prophet is one who is faithfully proclaiming what is written in the Bible.......It matters not whether he proclaims his message with deliberate, willful and malicious intent to deceive, or whether he is the blinded and deluded dupe of Satan and hence unwittingly used of him. In either case, he is a false prophet and hence the agent of Satan".----Watchtower May 15, 1930, p 154

34

Why are you looking forward to 1872? Er, 1873? Um...1874? Oh, I mean 1975?

by AndDontCallMeShirley in

"why are you looking forward to 1872?".

.. "in this chapter we present the bible evidence which indicates that six thousand years from the creation of adam were complete with a.d. 1872; and hence that, since a.d. 1872 are chronologically entered upon the seventh thousand or the millennium.

" (studies in the scriptures, vol.

AndDontCallMeShirley

DD: Let's assume for a moment that the Governing Body are all "mature Christians." Before Guy Pierce kicked the proverbial bucket, there were 8 men in the group. None of those 8 men EVER insisted on their personal ideas or harbored a private opinion.

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As Ray Franz described in Crisis of Conscience, the only individuals in the Org. allowed to have a dissenting opinion or harbor a "private" idea about WT doctrine are the Governing Body. Only they are allowed to question current doctrines/policies and open these doubts up to the other (now 7) members for discussion without fear of being disfellowshipped for apostasy. In actuality, according to WT's definition of "apostasy"(i.e. having even a thought that differs from the Org. constitutes apostasy), the only way changes can be made is for a GB member to be an apostate.

To your point, however, you are correct: it is absolutely absurd to think that anything would be accomplished if no one in the GB had a personal opinion about anything or tried to sway the group in a specific way. No decision could be made on any matter if that's the way things ran. As Ray pointed out, the GB is as political as any other corporate board and forcing personal opinions and forming alliances was often the only determining factor in how things got done.

Incidentally, the WT loves to insist there was a first century GB and WT follows that model. Really? The first century decision was unanimous; the GB requires only a 2/3 majority to enact a change. In essence, would this not make the dissenting 1/3 of the GB who disagreed with the 2/3 apostates??? It means the dissenting 1/3 does not agree with the now approved, "new light" doctrine, doesn't it? At best, it means the dissenters agree to a lie (the new doctrine) in order to support WT theology.

34

Why are you looking forward to 1872? Er, 1873? Um...1874? Oh, I mean 1975?

by AndDontCallMeShirley in

"why are you looking forward to 1872?".

.. "in this chapter we present the bible evidence which indicates that six thousand years from the creation of adam were complete with a.d. 1872; and hence that, since a.d. 1872 are chronologically entered upon the seventh thousand or the millennium.

" (studies in the scriptures, vol.

AndDontCallMeShirley

WT cannot keep its story straight. A liar needs to have an excellent memory:

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"Following 1925, meeting attendance dropped dramatically in some congregations... Again, in 1975, there was disappointment when expectations regarding the start of the Millennium failed to materialize. Again, some withdrew from the organization." --- Proclaimers (Jv), p.633

"This organization has NEVER disappointed us and always gives us an abundance of pure water of truth from God´s Word". --- W 7-15-2011

("truth" that failed not once, but twice, with regard to the seventh millennium).

Of course, the only reasonable thing WT could do is to blame the people who actually believed them:

"Adult Christians too can be disappointed, and this has in some cases led to spiritual disaster. Some set their hope on a date when they were sure Armageddon would come. When nothing happened on that day, they felt let down" --- W 4-15-90, p.27

Q.and where did these dates/false hopes originate? With the "Average Joe" publisher? Or with WTS leadership?

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F Franz (anointed) doubled down on the 6000 years of mankind's existence.

Once in 1889 then again in the late 1960's , well Franz did have access to the old WTS. literature in Brooklyn

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Stupid is as stupid does

34

Why are you looking forward to 1872? Er, 1873? Um...1874? Oh, I mean 1975?

by AndDontCallMeShirley in

"why are you looking forward to 1872?".

.. "in this chapter we present the bible evidence which indicates that six thousand years from the creation of adam were complete with a.d. 1872; and hence that, since a.d. 1872 are chronologically entered upon the seventh thousand or the millennium.

" (studies in the scriptures, vol.

AndDontCallMeShirley

Considering the total failure of everything WT has predicted since its inception, comments like this are absurd in the extreme:

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"Really, since our Lord has used "the faithful and discreet slave" to convey to us "sayings of everlasting life," why should we ever want to look anywhere else?" --- Watchtower 1987 Nov 1 p.20

"If we have love for Jehovah and for the organization of his people we shall not be suspicious, but shall, as the Bible says, 'Believe all things,' all the things that the Watchtower brings out" --- Qualified to be Ministers (1955) p.156

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"We have no doubtwhatever in regard to the chronology relating to the dates of 1874, 1914, 1918, and 1925. It was on this line of reckoning that the dates 1874, 1914, and 1918 were located; and the Lord has placed the stamp of his seal upon 1914 and 1918 beyond any possibility of erasure. What further evidence do we need? Using this same measuring line.... it is an easy matter to locate 1925, probably in the fall, for the beginning of the antitypical jubilee. There can be no more question about 1925 than there was about 1914." (Watchtower, p. 150, May 15, 1922)

"We did not say positively that this would be the year." --Watchtower 11/1/1914, p.5565

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"...a mature christian does not advocate or insist on personal opinions or harbor private ideas..."

" a mature Christian": Note the loaded language. In other words, if a person disagrees with WT's opinion, they are not "mature".

34

Why are you looking forward to 1872? Er, 1873? Um...1874? Oh, I mean 1975?

by AndDontCallMeShirley in

"why are you looking forward to 1872?".

.. "in this chapter we present the bible evidence which indicates that six thousand years from the creation of adam were complete with a.d. 1872; and hence that, since a.d. 1872 are chronologically entered upon the seventh thousand or the millennium.

" (studies in the scriptures, vol.

AndDontCallMeShirley

he claimed that C. T. Russell had used an incorrect translation of 1 Kings 6:1

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You are right. In other words, it was God's fault WT got their calculations wrong !! After all, He didn't guard his own Word, the Bible, so that the correct information was made available.

If Russell was chosen by Jesus to "revive long-lost truths", as WT claims, then why didn't Jesus correct this obvious error right from the beginning, instead of allowing Russell to build a false prophecy on it???

34

Why are you looking forward to 1872? Er, 1873? Um...1874? Oh, I mean 1975?

by AndDontCallMeShirley in

"why are you looking forward to 1872?".

.. "in this chapter we present the bible evidence which indicates that six thousand years from the creation of adam were complete with a.d. 1872; and hence that, since a.d. 1872 are chronologically entered upon the seventh thousand or the millennium.

" (studies in the scriptures, vol.

AndDontCallMeShirley

"Why Are You Looking Forward To 1872?"

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"In this chapter we present the Bible evidence which indicates that six thousand years from the creation of Adam were complete with A.D. 1872; and hence that, since A.D. 1872 are chronologically entered upon the seventh thousand or the Millennium." (Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 2, p. 33, 1889)

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1915: "We are already living in the seventh millennium - since October 1872." (The Time Is At Hand; 1889; 1915 ed.; p. 363)

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"Using Bible chronology that had first been laid out by Christopher Bowen of England, they thought that 6,000 years of human history had ended in 1873" (Proclaimers ch.28, pp.631-632)

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ka chap. 11 p. 187 par. 6 "Here Is the Bridegroom!"

According to the Bible chronology that was thereafter adopted, the six thousand years of man’s existence on the earth ended in the year 1872 but the Lord Jesus did not come at the end of those six millenniums of human existence, rather, at the start of the antitypical Jubilee in October of 1874. The year 1874 was calculated as being the end of six millenniums of sin among mankind. From this latter date mankind was understood to be in the seventh millennium.—Revelation 20:4.

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WT seemed to have learned its lesson about speculating and date setting:

"...Whatever time elapsed between Adam's creation and the end of the 'sixth day' must be subtracted from the 5,988 years in order to give the actual length of time from the beginning of the 'seventh day' until now. It does no good to use Bible chronology for speculating on dates that are still future in the stream of time." (All Scripture is inspired of God and Beneficial, 1963, page 286)

But, three years later, "speculating on dates" created the 1975 fiasco. Note that the 1963 "All Scripture" chronology is the same as the 1966 chronology in "Life Everlasting", but no 1975 fervor was created in 1963 because the WTS was not promoting that date. It did, however, begin attaching great importance to 1975 beginning in 1966:

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"According to this trustworthy Bible chronology six thousand years from man's creation will end in 1975, and the seventh period of a thousand years of human history will begin in the fall of 1975 C.E Six thousand years of man's existence on earth will soon be up, yea within this generation. The rein of Christ...to run parallel with the 7th millennium ..." (Life Everlasting in Freedom of the Sons of God, 1966, p. 29-30)

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WT does have one perfect record: 100% failure in its prophecies.

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Awake! October 8, 1968, p. 23:

"True, there have been those in times past who predicted an 'end of the world,' even announcing a specific date. Some have gathered groups of people with them and fled to the hills or withdrawn into their houses waiting for the end. Yet nothing happened. The 'end' did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was missing? Missing was the full measure of evidence required in fulfillment of Bible prophecy. Missing from such people were God's truths and the evidence that he was guiding and using them. But what about today? Today we have the evidence required, all of it. And it is overwhelming!"

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The Society claims to be a true prophet
(W 4-1-72, p197)
"So, does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come?

"These questions can be answered in the affirmative.

"This prophet was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah’s Christian witnesses. They are still proclaiming a warning, and have been joined and assisted in their commissioned work by hundreds of thousands of persons who have listened to their message with belief."

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"The point is that Christians have implicit trust in their heavenly Father; they do not question what he tells them through his written Word and organization." Watchtower 1974 July 15 p.441

38

Unbelievable Watchtower quote from 1962!!.. ''Don't waste time speculating on what year Armageddon will come'' (check it on cd-rom if you like)

by defender of truth in

wt 6/15 1962 p.380-383.

"likewise it is possible to spend valuable time speculating on matters concerning the future.

one might ask, in what year will armageddon begin?...jehovah has not provided answers at this time.

AndDontCallMeShirley

Hey D-D, you're on the right path-- "I am still in the searching phase of my beliefs, and I am entiled to change them just like you are."

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"Cherish those who seek the truth but beware of those who [claim to] find it." – Voltaire

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simply ignore those who declare they've found it.....

48

New talk outline! UNITE WITH JEHOVAH'S HAPPY PEOPLE!!!!

by DATA-DOG in

yay!!!

seriously one of the most watchtarded talks ever.

maybe one of our elders can post the outline??

AndDontCallMeShirley

"We say this with 100% confidence!!"

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"If you are a young person, you also need to face the fact that you will never grow old in this present system of things. Why not? Because all the evidence in fulfillment of Bible prophecy indicates that this corrupt system is due to end in a few years. Of the generation that observed the beginning of the "last days" in 1914, Jesus foretold: "This generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur."-Matt. 24:34. Therefore, as a young person, you will never fulfill any career that this system offers. If you are in high school and thinking about a college education, it means at least four, perhaps even six or eight more years to graduate into a specialized career. But where will this system of things be by that time? It will be well on the way toward its finish, if not actually gone!" -- Awake! 1969 May 22 p.15