Posts by AndDontCallMeShirley

35

JAN 2015 Awake - Yet More Fallacies and Disingenuous Statements re Evolution/Creation

by konceptual99 in

so the new awake is up.. first question..... "how did life begin?.

how would you complete the following sentance?.

life is the result of..... a. evolution.

AndDontCallMeShirley

Why can they not be open, transparent?

WT has never been guilty of transparency. Ever. Transparency is anathema to its core methodology.

38

The Present Truth is the Truth and the Old Truth is the Truth, even if they contradict.

by garyneal in

that is the conclusion you must accept if you are a jehovah's witness as my wife tries to explain to me that even if what they are teaching today contradicts what they were previously teaching, they had the truth then and they have the truth now.

the difference is, they (the witnesses and the governing body) simply believed that what they were teaching at the time was the truth but when they discovered new information they adjusted their thinking.

so since they formerly believed it to be the truth, they were in the truth.. an example she gave involved people who once believed the earth was flat.

AndDontCallMeShirley

WT has historically placed the blame on god- not directly, but by default. Afterall, if WT is guided by Jehovah™ in everything it does and teaches, as WT claims, then old "truths" that have been revealed as not being true at all are, in reality, lies. Who taught WT the lies?? God did ! So, it's His fault ! Being that god teaches lies, then he is not the self-proclaimed "god of truth" for whom "it is impossible to lie". By extension, this nullifies all the other hoped-for "promises" WT's god Jehovah has given to JWs- like Armageddon, a Paradise Earth, etc. I wonder how many JWs realize that their held beliefs about the wishy-washiness of Jehovah™ eviscerates their most cherished beliefs?

.

WT 09/15/2010

" Similarly today, a Governing Body composed of spirit-anointed Christians contributes to the unity of the worldwide congregation. The Governing Body publishes spiritually encouraging literature in many languages. This spiritual food is based on God's Word. Thus, what is taught is not from men but from Jehovah.-Isa. 54:13."

As the following quote shows, WT uses euphimisms when things get uncomfortable, like calling errors "misconstructions"; or calling errors "new light". It makes no difference...a falsehood is a falsehood no matter which color of paint you coat it with.

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In the 1954 Douglas Walsh Trial in Scotland, Fred Franz, who was Watchtower president from 1977-1992, was asked about the Society’s changes in doctrine. Here is how he answered:

Q. So that what is published as the truth today by the Society may have to be admitted to be wrong in a few years?

A. We have to wait and see.

Q. And in the meantime the body of Jehovah’s Witnesses have been following error?

A. They have been following misconstructions on the Scriptures.

Q. Error?

A. Well, error.

⎯

Douglas Walsh Trial, Pursuer’s Proof, 1954, p. 114

FREDERICK W FRANZ

The Question was asked by Watchtower Society Lawyer, Haydon C Covington

Q. Who subsequently became the Editor of the magazine, the main Editor of the "Watchtower" magazine?
A. In 1931, October 15th,as I recall, the"Watch Tower" discontinued publishing the names of any editorial committee on the second page.

The Court:He asked you who became the Editor.
The Witness:And it said....
The Court:Who became the Editor?

Q. Who became the Editor when this was discontinued?
A. Jehovah God.

16

The REAL purpose of the new 1914 explanation video...

by Calebs Airplane in

when a dub starts to question an elder about this doctrine (at the kh, field circus or wherever), the elder will only need to utter these words: "just watch the video".... .

.

AndDontCallMeShirley

No, here's the real reason:

When a dub starts to question an elder about this doctrine (at the KH, field circus or wherever), the elder will only need to utter these words: "Just watch the video" "are you doubting the GB? You are an apostate and must be disfellowshipped"...

20

which book says it?

by sowhatnow in

my mom seems to railroad me into a debate at least once a week.. anyway long story short,.

she says 'there is no where in the literture that the wt writers claimed that a specfic year it was going to be armageddon.. well i thought there was, and id like to print it or show it to her, i have some older books but not many.. so, is there?

i told her that the wt claimed that 1975 was going to be the end, she said no, they said that was the beginning of the tribulation.. wow, she forgot about the most recent article ablout that already!.

AndDontCallMeShirley

one could just as easily state it calls for caution ................

Maybe. But what is the "flavor" of the many other quotes that have been posted regarding 1975? What was the impression most JWs were under prior to 1975? WT wasn't 'calling for caution' when it encouraged this kind of decision-making on the part of JWs:

"Reports are heard of brothers selling their homes and property and planning to finish out the rest of their days in this old system in the pioneer service. Certainly this is a fine way to spend the short time remaining before the wicked world's end." Kingdom Ministry May 1974 p.3 How Are You Using Your Life?"

or this:

Therefore, as a young person, you will never fulfill any career that this system offers. If you are in highschool and thinking about a college education, it means at least four, perhaps even six or eight more years to graduate into a specialized career. But where will this system of things be by that time? It will be well on the way toward its finish, if not actually gone!" Awake! 1969 May 22 p.15

48

Service meeting video....what a non-event

by sir82 in

jw
friends

at our service meeting we saw the video of a jw explaining his beliefs about 1914.. it was.....well, "underwhelming" does not do it justice.

what is below "underwhelming"?

"boringly tepid"?.

AndDontCallMeShirley

"Does that make sense?"

A. "No".

JW: "sorry, you are a goat and have no place in god's organization".

.

"Does that make sense?"

B. "Yes".

JW: "You are gullible enough to be a member of the WT Club. Here's your decoder ring and the secret handshake".

48

Service meeting video....what a non-event

by sir82 in

jw
friends

at our service meeting we saw the video of a jw explaining his beliefs about 1914.. it was.....well, "underwhelming" does not do it justice.

what is below "underwhelming"?

"boringly tepid"?.

AndDontCallMeShirley

Magnum: I can't believe they even mention 1914 anymore, much less how to explain how it's calculated. I didn't think they'd go there anymore. This is the first I've heard of their visiting doctrine like that in a while.

Next week: "How measuring the inside passagways of the Great Pyramid of Giza proves 1914 is correct".

51

One Day assembly in Arizona- $17,000 !!

by AndDontCallMeShirley in

i heard from a reliable source that a one-day assembly in arizona last weekend had a "cost" to the publishers of $17,000.. predictably, the elders were nice enough to obligate the attendees to a $6,000 donation to wt before the assembly "costs" (i.e.

"rent/extortion) were even met.

$11,000 rent plus $6000 in extra "donations".

AndDontCallMeShirley

Jeff T: I can't find rates for that area, but I doubt it runs more than $2000 - 3000 a day.

Jeff, before the Ass Hall in Arizona was built, the circuits were renting high school auditoriums for $2,000-$3,000 per weekend. Attendance was usually in the 1200-1500 range. I'm sure your area is comparable.

Now JWs in Az. have to drive 90 minutes or more, instead of 15 minutes, to get the the AH, which is in the middle of nowhere between Tucson and Phoenix, and pay $17,000/day to rent their own mortgage-free building they paid $8 million+ to have.

20

which book says it?

by sowhatnow in

my mom seems to railroad me into a debate at least once a week.. anyway long story short,.

she says 'there is no where in the literture that the wt writers claimed that a specfic year it was going to be armageddon.. well i thought there was, and id like to print it or show it to her, i have some older books but not many.. so, is there?

i told her that the wt claimed that 1975 was going to be the end, she said no, they said that was the beginning of the tribulation.. wow, she forgot about the most recent article ablout that already!.

AndDontCallMeShirley

Discussion of 1975 overshadowed about everything else. "The new book compels us to realize that Armageddon is, in fact, very close indeed," said a conventioner.

Before WT started talking about 1975/end of 6,000 years of man's existence, no JW was even thinking of a specific date for Armageddon. As this quote reveals, it was only after the release of "Life Everlasting", with its silly, fictitious timeline chart, did JWs now focus on the date of 1975.

WT (more specifically, Freddie Franz) created the timeline, then continually fanned the flames to hype the nearness of 1975 and the possibility of Armageddon, then when it failed miserably, WT blamed the rank-and-file for being gullible enough to believe it.

---

An interesting comment on this transformation was made by Carl Sagan in his book Broca's Brain (New York: Ballantine Books, 1979, pp. 332-333):

Doctrines that make no predictions are less compelling than those which make correct predictions; they are in turn more successful than doctrines that make false predictions.

But not always. One prominent American religion [Jehovah's Witnesses] confidently predicted that the world would end in 1914. Well, 1914 has come and gone, and -- while the events of that year were certainly of some importance -- the world does not, at least so far as I can see, seem to have ended. There are at least three responses that an organized religion can make in the face of such a failed and fundamental prophecy. They could have said, "Oh, did we say '1914'? So sorry, we meant '2014.' A slight error in calculation. Hope you weren't inconvenienced in any way." But they did not. They could have said, "Well, the world would have ended, except we prayed very hard and interceded with God so He spared the Earth." But they did not. Instead, they did something much more ingenious.

They announced that the world had in fact ended in 1914, and if the rest of us hadn't noticed, that was our lookout. It is astonishing in the face of such transparent evasions that this religion has any adherents at all. But religions are tough. Either they make no contentions which are subject to disproof or they quickly redesign doctrine after disproof. The fact that religions can be so shamelessly dishonest, so contemptuous of the intelligence of their adherents, and still flourish does not speak very well for the tough-mindedness of the believers. But it does indicate, if a demonstration were needed, that near the core of the religious experience is something remarkably resistant to rational inquiry.

20

which book says it?

by sowhatnow in

my mom seems to railroad me into a debate at least once a week.. anyway long story short,.

she says 'there is no where in the literture that the wt writers claimed that a specfic year it was going to be armageddon.. well i thought there was, and id like to print it or show it to her, i have some older books but not many.. so, is there?

i told her that the wt claimed that 1975 was going to be the end, she said no, they said that was the beginning of the tribulation.. wow, she forgot about the most recent article ablout that already!.

AndDontCallMeShirley

"In this chapter we present the Bible evidence proving that the full end of the times of the gentiles, i.e., the full end of their lease of dominion, will be reached in A.D. 1914; and that the date will be the farthest limit of the rule of imperfect men. And be it observed, that if this is shown to be a fact firmly established by the Scriptures, it will prove; Firstly, that at that date the Kingdom of God, for which our Lord taught us to pray, saying, Thy Kingdom come, will obtain full, universal control, and that it will then be set up, or firmly established, in the earth, on the ruins of present institutions." (The Time Is At Hand, 1888, p. 76, 77)

"Be not surprised, then, when in subsequent chapters we present proofs that the setting up of the Kingdom of God is already begun, that it is pointed out in prophecy as due to begin the exercise of power in A.D. 1878, and that the 'battle of the great day of God Almighty (Rev. 16:14) which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth's present rulership, is already commenced. The gathering of the armies is plainly visible from the standpoint of God's word." (Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 2, The Time Is At Hand, 1889 Ed., p. 101. The 1915 Edition of this texts changed "A.D. 1914" to read 'A.D. 1915')

1889: "In the coming 26 years [1914/1915] , all present governments will be overthrown and dissolved." (C.T. Russell, Studies in the Scriptures, Vol. 2, p. 98-99, 1889)

"If you are a young person, you also need to face the fact that you will never grow old in this present system of things. Why not? Because all the evidence in fulfillment of Bible prophecy indicates that this corrupt system is due to end in a few years. Of the generation that observed the beginning of the "last days" in 1914, Jesus foretold: "This generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur."-Matt. 24:34. Therefore, as a young person, you will never fulfill any career that this system offers. If you are in highschool and thinking about a college education, it means at least four, perhaps even six or eight more years to graduate into a specialized career. But where will this system of things be by that time? It will be well on the way toward its finish, if not actually gone!" Awake! 1969 May 22 p.15

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"Today there is a great crowd of people who are confident that a destruction of even greater magnitude is now imminent. The evidence is that Jesus' prophecy will shortly have a major fulfilment, upon this entire system of things. This has been a major factor in influencing many couples to decide not to have children at this time." Awake! 1974 Nov 8 p.11

"Yes, since the summer of 1973 there have been new peaks in pioneers every month. Now there are 20,394 regular and special pioneers in the United States, an all-time peak. That is 5,190 more than there were in February 1973! A 34-percent increase! Does that not warm our hearts? Reports are heard of brothers selling their homes and property and planning to finish out the rest of their days in this old system in the pioneer service. Certainly this is a fine way to spend the short time remaining before the wicked world's end." Kingdom Ministry May 1974 p.3 How Are You Using Your Life?

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1953: "After almost six thousand years of human sorrow, suffering and death, at last permanent relief is near at hand and will be realized within this generation." (New Heavens And A New Earth; 1953; p. 7)

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1968 "The immediate future is certain to be filled with climatic events, for this old system is nearing its complete end. Within a few years at most the final parts of Bible prophecy relative to these last days will undergo fulfilment resulting in the liberation of surviving mankind into Christ's glorious 1000 year reign!" (Watchtower, 5/1/1968, p.272)

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1968 "'Adam Created At Close Of 'Sixth Day' Are we to assume from this study that the battle of Armageddon will be all over by the autumn of 1975, and the long-looked-for thousand-year reign of Christ will begin by then ? Possibly, but we wait to see how closely the seventh thousand-year period of man's existence coincides with the Sabbath-like thousand-year reign of Christ....It may involve only a difference of weeks or months, not years.'(Watchtower, Aug. 15, 1968, p499)

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Ironically, WT makes this comment, not realizing they are condemning themselves:

1968: "True, there have been those in times past who predicted an "end" to the world, even announcing a specific date. Yet nothing happened. The 'end' did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was missing? Missing from such people were God's truths and the evidence that He was using and guiding them.'' (Awake, Oct. 8, 1968)

73

This weeks service meeting! More craziness.....

by stuckinarut2 in

so this weeks service meeting is so full of "crazy".

a whole 15 min part devoted to trying to indoctrinate everyone on how to "explain our beliefs on 1914".

then another 15 min part called "a tool to help us explain our beliefs about 1914".

AndDontCallMeShirley

just wish I could see the November WT of 2029 to see how they will explain all this shit then...

This is easy: 2029 overlaps 2014 and 1914.