AndDontCallMeShirley

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Posts by AndDontCallMeShirley

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  67

  There are really TWO Watchtower Societies

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  with cedars release of leaked watchtower new light "adjusting" understanding of "who" the faithful and discreet slave is.....i am struck by something which similarly struck me back in 1967.in 1967 i had just been imprisoned.

  being a male jehovah's witness during the viet nam war meant certain "issues" arose affecting a decision to respond to the military draft.i have told the story before.

  but, i'd like go at it from another angle in view of the above mentioned new light about the fds fora different reason.it was first in 1967 i began to discover that there are two watchtower societies.let me explain why i say this and for what reasons.first of all, anybody standing in a kingdom hall or sitting in a seat at a vast international assembly saw people they would identify as all on the same page.

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  AndDontCallMeShirley

  heathen: I would be happy that they supported non compliance during viet nam tho . that would be the silver lining for me

  ADCMS: Remaining neutral to war or being a "conscientious objector" is not the issue with Terry's situation or the WT quotes I provided.

  The point is the Watchtower Society denied Jehovah's Witnesses the right to accept "alternative service" options that the government established precisely for the purpose of accomodating conscientious objectors. In fact, most governments bend over backwards to accomodate conscientious objectors, and JWs tend to get cut more slack than other religions. So, in order to avoid going to prison, the government would allow a JW to work in a hospital, do community service, work on a road crew, etc. However, the WT, in its incomprehensible reasoning, denied this option to JW men, equating working in a hospital as equivilent to serving in the armed forces and engaging in combat. If a JW accepted the alternative service option, rather than go into the military or to prison, they would be disfellowshipped for compromising their "Christian neutrality".

  The fact that the WT reversed their policy, as I provided evidence for, shows that the policy had no real basis in the first place. It was simply a man-made rule that resulted in innocent JWs paying a heavy price. And, that is Terry's point. Rather than allow each JW to make a personal decision in this matter according to their conscience, the WT not only demanded compliance with their policy but coached JWs to make claims to the draft board that were untrue and absolved the WT of all culpability in the process.

  Incidentally, Jehovah's Witnesses are not the only religion that have an official policy of remaining neutral to wars, then or now. So, I'm not sure how the idea of a"silver lining" factors into your comment. Are you saying that because the WT did not support the Vietnam War it somehow gets them off the hook for all the other injustices and nonsense they commit? And, that Terry's experience has no merit? Really?

  Also, the WT did not always hve a policy of neutrality to military service. In fact, in Russell's time an IBSA (JW) could even serve in combat. After Russell:

  In a further attempt to appease their enemies, Rutherford published statements in The Watchtower urging Bible Students to buy war bonds, participate in a day of prayer for allied victory and only stopped short of encouraging armed service. The Proclaimers book says:

  "Although they endeavored to do what they felt was pleasing to God, their position was not always one of strict neutrality … Thus, in accord with a proclamation of the President of the United States, The Watch Tower urged the Bible Students to join in observing May 30, 1918, as a day of prayer and supplication in connection with the outcome of the world war. [The Watch Tower, June 1, 1918, p. 174]" (p. 191)

  *** w80 11/15 pp. 26-27 par. 17 "Jehovah of Armies" to the Rescue! ***

  17 Like the Israelites of Isaiah’s day, the spiritual Israelites sold themselves because of wrong practices and came into bondage to the world empire of false religion, that is to say, to Babylon the Great, and to her worldly paramours. (2 Ki. 17:17; 1 Ki. 21:20, 25) An outstanding instance of this occurred during World War I of 1914-1918
• 
  67

  There are really TWO Watchtower Societies

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  with cedars release of leaked watchtower new light "adjusting" understanding of "who" the faithful and discreet slave is.....i am struck by something which similarly struck me back in 1967.in 1967 i had just been imprisoned.

  being a male jehovah's witness during the viet nam war meant certain "issues" arose affecting a decision to respond to the military draft.i have told the story before.

  but, i'd like go at it from another angle in view of the above mentioned new light about the fds fora different reason.it was first in 1967 i began to discover that there are two watchtower societies.let me explain why i say this and for what reasons.first of all, anybody standing in a kingdom hall or sitting in a seat at a vast international assembly saw people they would identify as all on the same page.

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  AndDontCallMeShirley

  Hey Terry:

  I thought you would find this interesting. It shows that really nothing has changed since your experience in 1967, and that the Watchtower is as deceptive as ever. Note not only the hypocrisy in the following quotes but also the flat-out lie, namely, saying that Jehovah's Witnesses are not bound to think exactly as the WT orders them to think:

  *** w98 3/15 p. 19 par. 4 Living Up to Christian Dedication in Freedom ***

  4 In order to avoid misunderstandings, Jehovah’s Witnesses try to be careful about how they express themselves. Instead of saying, "the Society teaches," many Witnesses prefer to use such expressions as, "the Bible says" or, "I understand the Bible to teach." In this way they emphasize the personal decision that each Witness has made in accepting Bible teachings and also avoid giving the false impression that Witnesses are somehow bound to the dictates of some religious sect. Of course, suggestions as regards terminology should never become a subject of controversy. After all, terminology is of importance only to the extent that it prevents misunderstandings. Christian balance is required. The Bible admonishes us "not to fight about words." (2 Timothy 2:14, 15) The Scriptures also state this principle: "Unless you through the tongue utter speech easily understood, how will it be known what is being spoken?"—1 Corinthians 14:9.

  However, this phrase, "the Society says", did not originate with the rank-and-file, it originated fom the Watchtower itself! As the following quote shows:

  *** w52 7/1 p. 414 Questions From Readers ***

  "The Watchtower Society says to take the children to meetings. But what if they are too small to understand? Or what if those old enough do not want to go? — D. C., New York.

  "The Society says that children should be taken to the congregational meetings because the Bible says so...."

  ----- So, the WT demands that every JW believe exactly what WT teaches, and no dissension or differing thought is allowed. However, they don't want you to admit that to anyone, so the order from headquarters is to deny they've told you what to say.

  THERE is a difference—a big difference—between education and propaganda. Education shows you how to think. Propaganda tells you what to think. Good educators present all sides of an issue and encourage discussion. Propagandists relentlessly force you to hear their view and discourage discussion.

  Often their real motives are not apparent. They sift the facts, exploiting the useful ones and concealing the others. They also distort and twist facts, specializing in lies and half-truths. Your emotions, not your logical thinking abilities, are their target. (JW.Org)

  ---

  Condemned yet again by their own words!!!!!!
• 
  2

  Watchtower: Changing The Past To Suit The Present

  by Gorbatchov in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the new leaked watchtower magazine with major changes in doctrines, makes me realy sick.

  we all know that communist governments are able to "change the past to suit the present".

  our religion, always fast to point the finger to other religions and governmental organizations about faults, fairness and mistakes, is violating history.

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  AndDontCallMeShirley

  Dishonesty, Deceit, Denial, Falsification, and Rewriting History.

  
  Cults are dishonest in many areas:

  they practice deceptive recruiting,

  they are hypocritical,

  they lie about the faults or shortcomings of the leader or leaders,

  they lie about the real nature of the group,

  they lie about the real goals and purposes of the group,

  they lie about what they have done in the past,

  and they lie about their finances.

  The cult has no respect for the historical truth. Like a Communist country that changes the history books every time a new dictator takes over, evil cults revise their history whenever it suits them. The cult won't allow mere facts to hinder it in its pursuit of wealth and power.

  A little closer to home, Jehovah's Witnesses will deny that they ever believed that Armageddon would come in 1975 — even those people who sold their homes or delayed getting medical treatment didn't ever believe it. They didn't gather on hilltops waiting for the Lord to come. It *did* *not* happen.

  http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-cult_q0.html#cq_guru_right

  The article also hypocritically mentions only the "truths" that Russell revealed, but does not mention all the false (according to WT) teachings he and the IBSA were promoting:

  worship of Jesus

  celebrating Christmas

  using the Cross (in fact, it was featured prominently on the cover of the Watchtower magazine)

  not neutral as to military service or secular affairs

  celebrating birthdays

  pyramidology

  promoting false "end time" dates

  promoting false "Christ's Second Coming" dates

  etc., etc.

  In fact, the WT admits that the Organization was so saturated with "Babylonish teachings" that it was necessary for Jesus to discipline Rutherford and others by having them thrown in prison, in order to "purify" them!

  Of course, this "New Light" nonsense effectively scrubs those dark points from Watchtower history as inconsequential.
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  20

  JW Apologists on YouTube and the Net becoming bolder

  by RayPublisher in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  is it just me or are we seeing more and more of these guys?.

  i have been having some extraordinary conversations with these folks lately and they are actually holding lengthy dialogues with me, one who has become "dangerous", is "poisonous", a "slanderer", etc.

  according to wt.. here is one exchange from yesterday and today with a jw apologist who calls himself "warriorprince101010" who decided to call me the dreaded "a" word on one of my videos, stating that i was a "bitter apostate":.

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  AndDontCallMeShirley

  Ray: Unfortunately you are dealing with someone who refuses to think and is not intrested in truth. In reality, he doesn't care if his beliefs are true. His loyalty is to men, not god, and he will stubbornly resist any efforts to convince him otherwise.

  As is typical, when a JW is put on the spot and presented with clear evidence that their position is wrong, they will never address your points or answer your questions. The reason is simple: they cannot defend their position without looking foolish.

  Not that it will make any difference with him, but keep these quotes handy for future reference. Do these quotes sound like the WT is just dispensing "advice"? You can hardly be claiming to speak for god, be his only true organization, allow no independent thought, and claim no understanding is possible without the WT organization, and at the same time be claiming to be dispensing mere "advice". Ask this person, "if the WT only prints advice, how come you cannot disagree with it?"

  *** w83 1/15 p. 22 par. 21 Exposing the Devil’s Subtle Designs ***

  21 How is such independent thinking manifested? A common way is by questioning the counsel that is provided by God’s visible organization

  " The other sheep should never forget that their salvation depends on their active support of Christ's anointed " brothers" still on earth.". - W 3-15-12, p.20

  "False religious propaganda from any source should be avoided like poison! Really, since our Lord has used "the faithful and discreet slave" to convey to us "sayings of everlasting life," why should we ever want to look anywhere else?" Watchtower 1987 Nov 1 p.20

  "A mature Christian must be in unity and full harmony with fellow believers as far as faith and knowledge are concerned. He does not advocate or insist on personal opinions or harbor private ideas when it comes to Bible understanding. Rather, he has complete confidence in the truth as it is revealed by Jehovah God through his Son, Jesus Christ, and the faithful and discreet slave." (Watchtower, August 1, 2001, p. 14).

  The Watchtower, October 1, 1967 Issue, Page 590:

  ....[Jehovah's Witnesses] must recognize and accept this appointment of the "faithful and discreet slave" and be submissive to it.

  Wt 59 09/1 p 530

  "The voice of Jehovah speaks to us today through his organization, giving us correction and instruction in righteousness and in active ministerial service. "

  Wt 07 2/1 p24

  . "And as was true of Noah, our success depends on obedience. We must obediently follow the direction Jehovah provides through his Word and his organization"

  Wt 98 7/15 p14

  "How happy we are that Jehovah is still speaking to us today, through his Word and his organization! "

  "A basis for approved fellowship with Jehovahs Witnesses cannot rest merely on a belief in God, in the Bible, in Jesus Christ, and so forth. Simply professing to have such beliefs would not authorize one to be known as one of Jehovahs Witnesses. Approved association with Jehovahs Witnesses requires accepting the entire range of the true teachings of the Bible, including those Scriptural beliefs that are unique to Jehovahs Witnesses." (Watchtower, April 1, 1986, p. 31).

  But if each of us were left to himself just because he has a copy of the Bible and were to direct his movements independently as he thought he understood the Word, what? It is likely, or possible, that there would be a great deal of confusion or working in competition among us. Hence, besides individually possessing God's Word, we need a theocratic organization. Yes, besides having God's spirit of illumination, a Christian needs Jehovah's theocratic organization in order to understand the Bible. (The Watchtower; 6/15/1951; pp. 375)

  But Jehovah God has also provided his visible organization, his "faithful and discreet slave," made up of spirit anointed ones, to help Christians in all nations to understand and apply properly the Bible in their lives. Unless we are in touch with this channel of communication that God is using, we will not progress along the road to life, no matter how much Bible reading we do. (The Watchtower; 12/1/1981; pp. 27
• 
  67

  There are really TWO Watchtower Societies

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  with cedars release of leaked watchtower new light "adjusting" understanding of "who" the faithful and discreet slave is.....i am struck by something which similarly struck me back in 1967.in 1967 i had just been imprisoned.

  being a male jehovah's witness during the viet nam war meant certain "issues" arose affecting a decision to respond to the military draft.i have told the story before.

  but, i'd like go at it from another angle in view of the above mentioned new light about the fds fora different reason.it was first in 1967 i began to discover that there are two watchtower societies.let me explain why i say this and for what reasons.first of all, anybody standing in a kingdom hall or sitting in a seat at a vast international assembly saw people they would identify as all on the same page.

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  AndDontCallMeShirley

  Your observations are spot on, Terry. It is interesting the coaching you were given, Re: military service. The Org. is telling you what to think, and will penalize you with disfellowshipping if you don't comply, yet cowardly pins all consequences on you, as if everything you are doing is due to your conscience!

  The whole ban on "aternative service" was yet another WT absurdity and everyone ECXEPT WT paid the price for that idiotic policy.

  Jail instead of military service

  "An examination of the historical facts shows that not only have Jehovah's Witnesses refused to put on military uniforms and take up arms but, during the past half century and more, they have also declined to do noncombatant service or to accept other work assignments as a substitute for military service. Many of Jehovah's Witnesses have been imprisoned because they would not violate their Christian neutrality." (United in Worship of the Only True God p.167)

  As Ray Franz pointed out in CoC, a survey of JW men imprisoned around the world at that time for following the WT's policy in this matter revealed that the vast majority of them DID NOT understand the WT's reasoning but complied with it anyway, to their detriment. Their decision had nothing to do with their conscience!

  After tens of thousands of young Witness men in the prime of their lives have spent years in jails for refusing civilian service in 1996 the Watchtower decided such a choice was not unchristian and a matter of choice.

  "What, though, if the State requires a Christian for a period of time to perform civilian service that is a part of national service under a civilian administration? That is his decision before Jehovah." (Watchtower 1996 May 1 p.20)

  To your point, the dividing line in the Org. is between those JWs who have a brain and are not afraid to use it, and those who have a brain but have switched it to "off" and allow the GB to do their thinking for them.

  comment made by CT Russell:

  "The endeavor to compel all men to think alike on all subjects, culminated in the great apostasy

  and the development of the papal system, and thereby the gospel, the one faith that Paul and the other apostles set forth, was lost- buried under the mass of uninspired decrees of popes and councils. The unity of the early church, based upon the simple gospel and bound only by love, gave way to the bondage of the church of Rome…Each new reform movement has made the failure of attempting to make a creed just large enough for its prime movers." p. l572 9/1893 WT
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  22

  My story in short

  by DeWandelaar in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i am visiting this site for quite some time now and now i think it is time to tell something about me and my experience.

  without giving away my name (i am in "fade mode"): i am from the small country they call the netherlands, the land of wooden shoes, tulips, cheese and too many inhabitants per square meter.

  i am married with children and a second generation jw.

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  AndDontCallMeShirley

  Welcome DeWandelaar !

  My experience is similar to your's. After going through a lot of injustice and problems with the Elders, seeing the conditional "brotherly" love in the Org., and beginning to have doubts about the legitimacy of certain doctrines, I decided to not attend meetings for a week. I felt so good at the end of that week, I decided to take another week off. At the end of the second week I felt even better. I decided to not return to the KH until I felt compelled to. That was over a year ago! I haven't been back since. If this is supposedly the only place to receive spiritual "refreshment" and hope, why did I feel better when I was away from it? I realized at that point the Org. is not a positive wonderful place. You can clearly see the pervasive and destructive negativity ONLY when you step away from it.

  I quit reading WT literature and began to really study the Bible, by itself. It's amazing how different the Bible reads when you don't have someone else (the Organization) TELLING you what it says! As a JW I never really had the time to read the Bible. I was too busy with meetings, field service, reading WT literature, etc. Besides, as a JW I had no reason to read the Bible- the governing body's explanations were good enough. It really was a very lazy "faith", as nothing had to be proved personally. Just do what the Org. says and it will please god. Yeah, right!

  I also came to the same conclusion you did after experiencing personally what the WT Org. is really all about: if this is God's way of doing things, if this is the model for the Paradise Earth, I want nothing to do with it! I cannot imagine a worse existence than an eternity of legalism, endless requirements and rules to please god, no freedom to do what makes me happy, etc.

  Crisis of Conscience was the big eye-opener for me, too. It made so many things with Org. doctrines and procedures make sense. It made the unexplainable, explainable, when you learn how things really work.

  If you haven't already, read Ray Franz' second book, "In Search of Christian Freedom".

  Welcome to freedom!
• 
  4

  Jehovah, Jehovah. Save me!' and POW

  by BlindersOff1 in

  1. social
  2. current

  the delusion runs deep.. .

  second tulsa woman attacked by pit bull recounts mauling.. credits jehovah for rescue.

  http://www.newson6.com/story/21802325/second-woman-attacked-by-pit-bull-recounts-mauling.

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  AndDontCallMeShirley

  If Jehovah was supposedly there to help her instantly AFTER she had been horribly mauled, why didn't he in some way give her warning BEFORE being attacked to just not go to that door? Funny how god never seems to step in until after the damage is done.

  This JWs god is not a very nice person. If he had the ability to help her and did not until it was too late, then god is apathetic at best, evil at worst.

  Oh, and it wasn't god that saved her.... it was a "wicked" worldly man with an 'evil' gun. Ironic, isn't it? A man the JWs have condemned to die by god's hand at Armageddon is 'saving' his people now!

  God helping her would've been a materialized angel showing up or an irrefutable visible sign.
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  45

  CONTI CASE : Kathleen Conti Just commented on a Facebook Xjw group

  by BlindersOff1 in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  kathleen conti just commented on a facebook xjw group that "watchtower gets no more extensions".

  .

  https://www.facebook.com/groups/xjwrg3/10151371194950835/?notif_t=group_comment.

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  AndDontCallMeShirley

  I just went to the Court webpage, and under "Scheduled Actions", it says:

  "Appeal dismissed for failure to file opening brief" "due date 3/26/13"

  The webpage says it is current as of 3/27/13
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  20

  JW Apologists on YouTube and the Net becoming bolder

  by RayPublisher in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  is it just me or are we seeing more and more of these guys?.

  i have been having some extraordinary conversations with these folks lately and they are actually holding lengthy dialogues with me, one who has become "dangerous", is "poisonous", a "slanderer", etc.

  according to wt.. here is one exchange from yesterday and today with a jw apologist who calls himself "warriorprince101010" who decided to call me the dreaded "a" word on one of my videos, stating that i was a "bitter apostate":.

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  AndDontCallMeShirley

  Good point, Brother OTH. Thanks for posting a scan ofthat OSCE document. Since the OSCE pursues issues only for its members, The Watchtower's affiliation with them as an active member is quite beyond dispute.

  And, unlike OSCE, the WT did not have to apply for NGO status with the U.N. in order to obtain a "library card" as they claim. Prior to 9-11-2001 anyone could access the UN library physically with no special status (NGO) and all of the library's contents were available online. Post- 9/11 a little more security was added to gain access to the library physically, but being an NGO was not one of those requirements. And, most of the online information and access to it was still available without being an NGO.

  Regardless, even if the U.N. had the greatest library in the world and WT could use that as a resource for some informative articles, the fact is the WT condemned all association with the UN in any status. It has targeted specifically religions that have NGO status, most notably the Catholic Church, calling them spiritual "drunkards" for currying favor from this world's political elements, the "wild beast" controlled by Satan.

  The following letter makes their true status quite clear, and for WT to claim ignorance of what they were doing is disingenuous at best:

  This is excerpted from a letter dated March 4, 2004 from Paul Hoeffel, the then Chief of the Non-Governmental Organizations (NGO) Section of the U.N. Department of Public Information. It was written in response to "numerous inquiries regarding the association of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York with the Department of Public Information (DPI)."

  The letter states:

  "This organization [the WTBTS] applied for association with DPI in 1991 and was granted association in 1992. By accepting association with DPI, the organization agreed to meet criteria for association, including support and respect of the principles of the Charter of the United Nations and commitment and means to conduct effective information programmes with its constituents and to a broader audience about UN activities."

  The letter also makes clear that requirements now are the same as they were when the Watchtower submitted their application. It says:

  "The criteria for association for NGOs has not been changed since 1991"

  The WT disassociated themselves in 2002 after getting busted. They have yet to admit their hypocrisy to Jehovah's Witnesses in any official manner.
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  20

  JW Apologists on YouTube and the Net becoming bolder

  by RayPublisher in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  is it just me or are we seeing more and more of these guys?.

  i have been having some extraordinary conversations with these folks lately and they are actually holding lengthy dialogues with me, one who has become "dangerous", is "poisonous", a "slanderer", etc.

  according to wt.. here is one exchange from yesterday and today with a jw apologist who calls himself "warriorprince101010" who decided to call me the dreaded "a" word on one of my videos, stating that i was a "bitter apostate":.

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  AndDontCallMeShirley

  Hello Ray

  First off, thank you so much for your courage. I appreciate what you've done to promote truth.

  If only Jehovah's Witnesses cut as much slack for other religions as they do for themselves!

  Apologist: "The UN membership does not condone the UN or claim it can bring world peace, also it is old news."

  Your JW apologist needs to spend more time reading his own WT literature and less time debating people who actually know what they are talking about!

  The Watchtower has made it clear that ANY association with the U.N. is wrong, labelled as 'guilt by association'. The "it is old news" excuse also falls short ! The WT is currently a member of the OSCE, a close associate of the U.N. with virtually identical goals. Note what WT has said about the YMCA, the U.N. and similar organizations:

  • "In joining the YMCA as a member a person accepts or endorses the general objectives and principles of the organization. He is not simply paying for something he receives, such as when buying things being sold to the public at a store. (Compare 1 Corinthians 8:10; 10:25). Nor is his membership merely an entry pass, as when a person buys a theatre ticket. Membership means that one has become an integral part of this organization founded with definite religious objectives, including the promotion of interfaith. Hence, for one of Jehovah's Witnesses to become a member of such a so-called "Christian" association would amount to apostasy." - w79 1/1 p. 31 - [Emphasis added]

  *** w81 9/15 p. 23 par. 15 Disfellowshiping—How to View It ***

  Or, a person might renounce his place in the Christian congregation by his actions, such as by becoming part of an organizationwhose objective is contrary to the Bible, and, hence, is under judgment by Jehovah God. (Compare Revelation 19:17-21; Isaiah 2:4.) So if one who was a Christian chose to join those who are disapproved of God, it would be fitting for the congregation to acknowledge by a brief announcement that he had disassociated himself and is no longer one of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

  Watchtower 15 Sep 1984 p.15

  "No, the UN is not a blessing, even though the religious clergy of Christendom and the rabbis of Jewry pray heaven’s blessing upon that organization. It is really "the image of the wild beast," the visible political, commercial organization of "the god of this system of things," Satan the Devil. So the UN will soon be destroyed along with that beastly organization."

  *** lv chap. 7 pp. 82-83 Do You Value Life as God Does? ***
  
  STAY CLEAR OF BLOODGUILTY ORGANIZATIONS

  20 In God's eyes, Satan's entire world is bloodguilty. Its political systems, portrayed in the Scriptures as vicious beasts, have slaughtered countless millions, including many of Jehovah's servants. (Daniel 8:3, 4, 20-22; Revelation 13:1, 2, 7, 8) Hand in hand with these beastlike powers, business and science have worked to create some of the most heinous weapons imaginable, making huge profits in the process. How true that "the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one"!-1 John 5:19.

  21 Because Jesus' followers are "no part of the world" but remain strictly neutral toward its politics and wars, they avoid personal and community bloodguilt. (John 15:19; 17:16)

  ---

  OSCE

  "With 56 States from Europe, Central Asia and North America, the OSCE is the world's largest regional security organization. It offers a forum for political negotiations and decision-making in the fields of early warning, conflict prevention, crisis management and post-conflict rehabilitation, and puts the political will of its participating States into practice through its unique network of field missions. "The OSCE has a comprehensive approach to security that encompasses politico-military, economic and environmental, and human aspects." (osce.org/who 6th Oct 2012)

  The OSCE is closely aligned with the United Nations.The OSCE recognizes that the United Nations Security Council bears primary responsibility for the maintenance of international peace and security. Thus, the United Nations is the OSCE's primary partner organization. (osce.org/ec/43240)

  The 2006 participants yet again include Mr. Marcel Gilletrepresenting the European Association of Jehovah's Christian Witnesses .

  ----

  Now, if the Watchtower will disfellowship a JW for using the swimming pool at the YMCA because "Membership means that one has become an integral part of this organization", how can the WT, or any Jehovah's Witness, claim the WT can join the U.N. and remain innocent?

  It is absurd and the height of hypocrisy !