Posts by AndDontCallMeShirley

26

Not so special special talk

by stillin in

what's new?.

AndDontCallMeShirley

NewYork44m: the end is near, very near. I suggest you don't buy any green banannas.

LOL. Good one.

I just bought some canned tomatoes that expire May 2013. Was I running ahead of God's Organization and being presumptuous?

11

Ladder In The Lion's Den, Leopold Engleitner's story

by designs in

our town is hosting a international indie film festival this week and today they are featuring leopold engleitner's story of being a witness in the concentration camps of buchenwald, niederhagen, and ravensbruck.

he weighed 63 lbs.

when he was freed.

AndDontCallMeShirley

exwhyzee said: I thought they were sent to the camps for simply being JW's, Jews or gay rather than for not joining the military.

Jehovah's Witnesses became a target of Hitler directly because of the actions of Rutherford. Rutherford tried to curry favor with Hitler and pretend the WT was a friend of the Nazi government. When Hitler didn't buy into the charade, Rutherford went on the warpath and made himself, the WT, and by extension, all Jehovah's Witnesses an enemy of Hitler. They were imprisoned primarily because the Nazi government saw the Watchtower Society as a subversive cult, dangerous to the German people.

Unfortunately, while Rutherford lived the high life in Brooklyn, the innocent JWs in Germany paid the real price for his arrogance and duplicity.

The "Proclaimers" book, page 661, has a copy of the form Jehovah's Witnesses could sign to avoid being imprisoned:

I, _____ , born on ______ in ______ declare the following:

1. I recognized that the International Bible Students Association spreads out erroneous teachings, and pursues anti-state goals under the cloak of its religious activity

2. For this reason I disassociated myself fully and completely of this organization and I also released myself psychologically off this cult.

3. Thus I guarantee that I will never ever activate for the IBSA. I will denounce any person who approaches me with the heresies of the Bibelforscher or by any means let me know they are Bibelforscher. I will submit to the nearest police station any piece of Bibelforscher literature sent to me.

4. I will henceforth obey the laws of the state, especially in case of wars I will defend my motherland with the weapon in hand and I will submit myself in the ranks of the people's association.

5. I have been informed that I will face arrest again if I revoke today's declaration.

Place, date, signature

The WT falsely claims that the Nazis demanded that JWs had to renounce Jehovah as their god. This is a patently false assertion. It involved resignation from being committed to the teachings of the Watch Tower Society.

14

My Story

by braincleaned in

here's where i am coming from.

i have spent over 45 years in religion.

i was deep into it, as a jw.

AndDontCallMeShirley

Excellent post. Thank you for sharing your story.

My experience is similar to yours. As a young, born-in JW, I also was bothered by the "loving" god of the Bible doing such terrible things to people, especially to his own servants. Making life so hard after the Exodus the Jews would rather be slaves in Egypt again; then killing those same Jews by the thousands because they complained about the hard life god gave them; Striking Miriam with leprosy; killing 70,000 innocent Israelites because David took a census; killing Achan's family for the sin of the father; genocide of non-Israelite nations; holding up murderers, adulterers, despicable people as examples because they were "chosen" by god while at the same time condemning those sins in others, etc. It seemed to me that god was as petty and cruel as the human creation he so regularly condemned. But, as a JW, when you have these questions, you must do your duty and suppress them under the guise that god works in ways we don't understand.

When I started "waking up", I too began to read Dawkins, Harris and Hitchens. Their lucidity for seeing through the contradictions and nonsense in religion was eye-opening. Hitchens made a comment that put it all into perspective: 'if everything that the Bible says about god is true, it still would not compel him to want to serve one moment of eternity with such a person as him'. So true.

You'll find many friends here, welcome! Looking forward to your future comments.

34

Immoral sleeping arrangement?

by hoser in

jw
friends

i'm reading through the watchtower rule book right now and i came to the chapter clarification and guidelines on handling certain matters.

there is a part about scriptural divorce and even if adultery is not proved if your ex stayed all night or is involved in an immoral sleeping arrangement you can get scriptural grounds to remarry.. .

they make a rule, then they have to make a rule for the rule, make another rule for the rule for the rule.

AndDontCallMeShirley

"even if adultery is not proved if your ex stayed all night or is involved in an immoral sleeping arrangement you can get scriptural grounds to remarry."

The other question is: what happened to the Watchtower's beloved "two witness" rule in this instance? The WT will let a pedophile off the hook based on the fact that two people were not watching the child being raped. But in this case, even when both adults involved in the "immoral sleeping arrangement" deny any wrongdoing, the WT will allow an assumption of guilt to hold sway.

"They make a rule, then they have to make a rule for the rule, make another rule for the rule for the rule"

This is the natural, and unavoidable, result of what happens when you just make things up, claim it is based on the Bible, and then have to back pedal to get out of the hopelessly flawed situation you've gotten yourself into.

11

The Best News Ever !!

by AndDontCallMeShirley in

dyslexia for cure found !!.

.

isn't awesome that?

AndDontCallMeShirley

wrong You're, Newly Enlightened.

My dr. I'm says fully cured. Worries, no. I have a guarantee 100% refund full I'm if dissatisfied.

11

The Best News Ever !!

by AndDontCallMeShirley in

dyslexia for cure found !!.

.

isn't awesome that?

AndDontCallMeShirley

Dyslexia For Cure Found !!

Isn't awesome that?

63

BROTHERS & SISTERS - READ THE BROCHURE!

by The Searcher in

jesus always used illustrations to help people reason on the import of what he was saying.

here is an illustration followed by a reality;.

imagine that your heart went out to all those poor people who suffered when fukushima blew up, so much so, that when an internationally renowned charity asked for donations to help those in need, you donated $5000 to the cause.

AndDontCallMeShirley

My impression when donating for Katrina relief was that the money would go to those who had little or no insurance coverage for the damage they sustained and that volunteers were helping those who were unable to pay for the labor needed to do the repairs. If someone had insurance coverage, other than a lack of laborers, why did the jw volunteers need to be involved?

ADCMS: There was a shortage of labor in the Gulf Coast after Katrina and Rita hit the area. On the day we arrived, it was explained to us that we were not doing our work there to give the affected brothers a better life, or make their homes better than they were before being damaged, or to make things easier for them. Our reason for being there, get this, was to get the brother and sisters back out in the field ministry faster!

The disaster committees had decided that the longer it takes JWs to get their homes repaired, then they won't be going door-to-door. So, besides what appears to be an obvious financial scam, the WT Society's disaster relief was not altruistic- it was selfish. You see, if JWs are not proselytizing, then they are not placing literature, counting time, or gaining converts. Since the WT is all about numbers, declining numbers don't fit into the game plan. Additionally, maybe the WT was also fearing that if a JW is working on his home for weeks or months, he also won't be attending meetings. As all of us here know, once you are away from the indoctrination for even a short period of time light bulbs start turning on and you see things differently. In short, your brain begins to work. The fear may have been of losing large amounts of active JWs also. The methodology was focused on keeping JWs in a "theocratic routine" more than truly helping them restore their lives.

I was still very much "in" when I volunteered for disaster relief. But that statement, "we were there only to get the brothers and sisters back into the ministry as quickly as possible", really hit a nerve with me. I thought to myself, "my god! These brothers just went through a horrible disaster, their lives have been turned upside down, the region is devastated, and this is the WT's biggest concern, field service? Talk about a myopic and self-absorbed view of life!

So, many here are correct: normal thinking would be to help those without insurance get back on their feet and those who were insured will just have to get in line with everyone else and wait their turn. But, obviously, there seems to be a deeper motivation for the WT disaster relief which had little to do with charity. If insured property was the focus, then there's a powerful financial motive for prioritizing those homes over uninsured ones that wouldn't generate enormous profits.

david_10: that's exactly what I said, but ADCMS and I had some kind of a communication problem and I couldn't seem to get it across to him.

ADCMS: no worries, friend! I understand what you're saying.

63

BROTHERS & SISTERS - READ THE BROCHURE!

by The Searcher in

jesus always used illustrations to help people reason on the import of what he was saying.

here is an illustration followed by a reality;.

imagine that your heart went out to all those poor people who suffered when fukushima blew up, so much so, that when an internationally renowned charity asked for donations to help those in need, you donated $5000 to the cause.

AndDontCallMeShirley

Marvin- thanks for sharing your experience. I worked on one home in Slidell. Most of the neighborhood was abandoned but we worked on a JWs home there.

I found this comment interesting: She said, “Well, I wasn’t given an invoice. But I was informed that a commensurate donation expected for JWs who wanted to remain in good standing with 'the church'."

While I never personally heard that particular statement made to anyone we did work for, I wonder if this was an official tactic that WT told these group captains to use? I'm not doubting your statement, as I saw enough to know it's within the realm of possibility. It's bad enough to suggest inflated commercial rates for work that cost WT nothing to have done, but it would be unforgiveable if they were blackmailing JW homeowners with a threat to their standing in the cong. being affected if they didn't donate the full amount WT expected to get for the work.

Problemaddict: One thing however, if the homeowner was a good person, and they put it all togehter, would they ever REALLY donate to anything other than the WWW? I mean, do you know JW's who have given money to charities run by secular organizations or (gulp), religious institutions?

ADCMS: no, I'm sure JWs would never donate to anything except the WWW. I don't know of any JWs who donate to "worldly" charities. WT has convinced JWs that all charities are corrupt and would only waste the money.

It's better to send your $$ to WT- that way you'll never have to worry about seeing it again, unless you go visit the new WT Country Club in Warwick. That's the extent of what donating to WT accomplishes.

63

BROTHERS & SISTERS - READ THE BROCHURE!

by The Searcher in

jesus always used illustrations to help people reason on the import of what he was saying.

here is an illustration followed by a reality;.

imagine that your heart went out to all those poor people who suffered when fukushima blew up, so much so, that when an internationally renowned charity asked for donations to help those in need, you donated $5000 to the cause.

AndDontCallMeShirley

A few months after I resigned as a pioneer I got a letter from the Society requesting that I tally up the discount I got on my leftover literature and send it to them by way of the contribution box. I was stunned. Seriously? I was flat broke, so I didn't do it and felt not one scintilla of guilt.

ADCMS: Are you serious? Unbelievable! Even at the pioneer discount rate, the WT was still making a profit. I believe it was Ray Franz that pointed out the magazines actually cost only about a nickel to print. I don't remember what I paid as a pioneer as it was so many years go, but assuming you got them for 15 cents as opposed to 25 cents for the publishers, the WT is still making money.

I think what I would have done is sent a bill to Brooklyn for all the gas, tires, oil changes, wear-and-tear on my car, coffee breaks, worn out shoes and clothes, money lost pioneering instead of working at my job, etc. and told them if they're willing to compensate me for all that, I'll be glad to donate for the discounted magazines I still had.

Do they honestly think that 10 cent discount came anywhere near to making up for what pioneering actually cost you?

It really shows how ungrateful WT is, doesn't it? Once your usefulness is used up you're thrown out like so much chaff.

63

BROTHERS & SISTERS - READ THE BROCHURE!

by The Searcher in

jesus always used illustrations to help people reason on the import of what he was saying.

here is an illustration followed by a reality;.

imagine that your heart went out to all those poor people who suffered when fukushima blew up, so much so, that when an internationally renowned charity asked for donations to help those in need, you donated $5000 to the cause.

AndDontCallMeShirley

problemaddict said: It is however interesting that the homeowner in this situation could make out like a bandit.

Of course, agreed, this is always a possiblity.

I firmly believe most JWs are good people, and would feel indebted enough for the help they received to donate a fair amount back into a fund to help others. From what I observed, most were truly appreciative, and neither guilting nor coercion were necessary to compel them to do the right thing. The way I observed things being handled was disturbing and really circumvented a genuine person's natural inclination to give back out of the generosity of their heart.

For the "bad eggs" who may take advantage of the system and pocket their check, well.... that's between them and god, or their conscience. We can't do anything about it. Considering that most JWs firmly believe Jehovah sees all, and stealing from the Org. would be stealing from god, it is hard to imagine they'd foolishly risk eternal death to make a few bucks- but it could happen.

Quoting an expected dollar figure for volunteer services rendered seems to betray that the Watchtower doesn't have too much confidence in the morality of it's members, doesn't it? If that's true, the fault lies with the teacher, not the student.