i mean when it comes to life, death, god, the universe etc.
have you gone and learned about other religions.
what do you feel is the purpose of life?
I believe it is important for me to attain freedom from dependency wherever possible.
Dependency is the ultimate weakness and lack of dignity. When we have no choices we are no longer living then we are just existing and at that stage we are no different than any other animal on the planet.
Free the Donkey's!!!!!
i am absolutly miserable !.
i am a newbie here, some of you have seen my posts.
and for those of you, who are old timers, this is no news to you.
Take your religious arguing and rantings and shove them up your ass. This thread is a call for emotional support not an opportunity to bible bash each other. Believers make me sick!!
i am absolutly miserable !.
i am a newbie here, some of you have seen my posts.
and for those of you, who are old timers, this is no news to you.
Puternut,
While I want to say how sorry I feel for you - I have to honestly say I am happy for you. It's kinda like just digging through the walls and sliding down a sewerage pipe to escape from a prison. Right now you have just gotten into the pipe...but you cannot lose sight of the fact that you are on your way to freedom. It's a tough trip but you can make it - many here stand as a testament to that. Just promise yourself that if you are going to do it that you need to look out for yourself - in the end you have to be true to yourself and true to what you discover as truth in the world aound you.
I doubt many here were affected by the neutrality issue as I have been but others have been much more affected by other issues. After 20 years I still suffer from occasional nightmares because of some of the experiences. Like yourself I also feel that it was all a total waste of time and I still feel that I am owed retribution for what it has all cost me in terms of personal damages and quite honestly I don't know if I will ever change my mind on that.
You have to realize that you owe it to yourself to find out the truth about life (yes you were lied to), the world (it's not the big evil place lying in the devil's hands) and most importantly the truth about yourself. You aren't who you think you are - your perceptions have been shaped by your faltering belief system and your true personality has been suppressed because you believed you had behave in certain ways and supress your curiosity (for example - you would chastize yourself as being doubtful when you should always be asking the next question).
Unfortunately, I cannot offer you support in person because my own family circumstances are very difficult to deal with but other people here will be here for you. Some of them will become great friends and other will be a pain in the ass - just like all groups of people. But you will find a place where you belong and you can feel that too. When I was exiting the organization I felt angry at the JW's and as though "worldly" people could not relate to me - and this place was the only place where I could "be" with others who could relate to me and who I was, what I had been through and was going through. Hang in there and remember to question everything you believe. What I found helped me was to setup a framework for the discovery of real truth. The only way I could do that was eventually to look at the process scientists use for proving theories as tending to truth. We have not been taught to do this as JW's and in fact we have taught just to accept what we were told even though we instinctively knew it made no sense. An example of what I am talking about:
Falsifiability. In order to prove a theory true there should be a test that proves it untrue. If any of the tests prove the theory untrue then disregard the theory. How can something be slightly true - its true or it isn't. You will find grey areas - just accept them and let them be but the flagrantly false theories - don't waste your time on them the falsehoods only have power if YOU give them power. We gave them power over us for too long - now it's time to stop. We all want happiness and meaning in our lives - deep down we are all very similar.
I wish you the best in your discovery of the truth and your discoveries about yourself. Allow yourself to feel it, but don't let it grieve you too deeply - if you find that occurring then seek professional therapy to get you past that.
i always have felt that the following expressions were stupid, why dont they just call it pro abortion, anti abortion.
anyway, knowing our backgrounds as jw's what is your viewpoint on this highly debated issue?
I used to be vehemently anti-abortion.
I am now unconvinced that all abortion is murder. The clincher for ne was reading the essay on the subject by Carl Sagan. He essentially says this:
Pro-lifers says "abortion is murder". If we accept that then we need to define murder. Murder is the killing of another human being. Murder is not the killing of an animal for instance. So then Sagan said "what makes you a human being?"
We know that a chimpanzee has 99% DNA match to us. Yet they are not considered human and killing a chimpanzee is not murder (although perhaps for us animal lovers it could be). A chimpanzee is as intelligent as a 5 year old. A potato has more genes than a human being so it is not genetic complexity.
Thus we eliminate intelligence as the defining factor for what makes us human otherwise we might be ok killing everyone under 5 years of age if its not murder to kill a chimpanzee.
At some point a growing fetus becomes a human being. Where that point lies is a matter of arbitrary definition based on ones viewpoint and the law always draws an arbitrary line in the sand - eg being allowed to drink at 21 (you suddenly in the space of one day mature enough from age 20 and 264 days when you could not drink to 21 and 0 days where its ok). The same is true in human fetal growth.
So accepting the definition that murder is the killing of a human being we need to answer and provide solid logical (not mystical or religious) evidence to support our views. I am unable to make that decision sufficiently for myself let alone anyone. I challenge anyone to provide evidence to the contrary and I will gladly change my viewpoint.
yes, i did it.. after the thread in which i asked how i could possibly tell my jw mum that i'm pagan....i decided to take the bull by the horns and tell her.. her reaction made me wonder if she reads this board.. firstly, to "ease" her in, i mentioned that i'm doing a course in reiki.
reiki is a complimentary therapy - basically hands on healing.
well, she said she knew a little about reiki and thought it was a good idea.
I can't tell you how many times I've had spiders appearing all over the place, even sitting on my knee!
You need to dust the house better in future...
for a brief explanation of mitochondrial eve please refer to http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/alabaster/a703199.
one of the most compelling pieces of evidence against the flood is mitochondrial eve.
if we consider that the bible states noah and co had 4 females on the love boat then all humans today are descended from the 4 women - hence making them collectivley the mitochondrial eve.
ThiChi did you manage to find the answer to the question I asked in my previous post in this thread?
so many times the word "faith" is touted around, especially in debates concerning "blind faith" (and usually levelled at "believers"), but what is it really?.
heb 11:1 defines it as follows:"now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
" kjv.
Faith is a set of beliefs.
It is a mechanism we use when we believe something true but do not have evidence. If we have evidence then we would have knowledge - not faith. For that reason I am always amused by those who claim that they have the "true faith". For something to be true requires proof. The very notion that faith is needed means that evidence is not present - so we have one of the most substantial examples of an oxymoron -viz. "true faith".
for a brief explanation of mitochondrial eve please refer to http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/alabaster/a703199.
one of the most compelling pieces of evidence against the flood is mitochondrial eve.
if we consider that the bible states noah and co had 4 females on the love boat then all humans today are descended from the 4 women - hence making them collectivley the mitochondrial eve.
ThiChi,
So when according to you did the flood occur? The commonly accepted date according to Bible Chronologists is around 2,200 to 2,300 BCE. Give us your estimate please.
Interestingly you quote from the Epic of Gilgamesh to provide us with credibility to your claims. When was Gilgamesh the king of Uruk? Any ideas?
When answering please bear in mind that according to your Bible chronologist buddies Gilgamesh would have had to have lived AFTER the Tower of Babel (an event that supposedly occurred after the flood) and in order for the Gilgamesh epic to be detailed in the Sumerian Language what explanation do you have to offer?
Thanks for responding.
does anybody here believe in palm reading?
some say that they can see by the lines of your hands if you will live a long life, or any other aspect of your life.. is there anybody good at this here?
if so, read mine.
Your palm will ultimately cause you to suffer from blindness
this from a lecture i heard by an anthropologist:.
"the adequacy of a definition is not to be judged by the group to whom it is applied.
marinate on that for a minute.. bradley
A religion is just a cult with more real estate.
