Posts by donkey

Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us. You know I don't know what I call myself any longer - from a JW standpoint. A few years ago i found myself where you appear to be now - tired of the drudgery and the routine of a never ending demand for my energies and my time. I also found that there were things I just accepted because I was following what I had been taught since I was born. Here are a few examples of what I could never find answers to IN THE BIBLE (I will only share 4 right now):

How could I prove SCRIPTUALLY that the 144.000 were sealed in 1935. I always accepted it but someone at work asked me to prove it one day using the Bible. I was stumped and a little humiliated by my own lack of personal study.
I dislike farming and gardening. So the idea of becoming an everlasting farmer held no appeal to me. When I raised this at a shepherding call I was told "don't think about those things - just kep focused on our work today". This was disheartening to me because reward systems motivate action and I could not find the desire to keep going since the reward was somehwta unappealing to me.
One January I looked at the Annual Proclaimers Report and it struck me that Jehovah appeared to like Americans a whole lot more than the other nations. Why did he pick Russell? I thought then that Jehovah was being practical because America leads the way in production and technology so he was going to use this as a mechanism to "speed up the work". But then it just didn't seem fair that jehovah was partial to westerners. Think about it like this: Most people adopt the religion of their parents or their peers (sure there are a few exceptions). So then if someone in India (where there are very few JW's) has a "good heart" why would Jehovah penalize them because they hit the shallow end of the geographic lottery?
We were taught that we had to preach so that others could be saved. Although the society never really drummed the implications of this home at our hall we were told that only JW's would be saved and all living non-JW's would die at Armageddon. This is a mathematical impossibility though. Why? Because the number of people being born on the planet everyday is increasing much fatster than the number of JW's is and this becomes and impossible task. It also means mainly young people are those who are setup to be destroyed at Armageddon (just think about it for a minute or two its simple exponentiation).

At any rate, based on these and a host of other questions I stopped going to meeting and on field service. Every member of my family is a JW so like you i have avoided getting disfellowshipped or disassociating myself. Based on these questions and others I have since decided that there is no basis for a God to choose westerners vs Easterners and I can find no reason why if there is a God he would inspire a Bible that would be used only by a portion of the inhabitants of the planet - surely he would give everyone a "fair" chance. I can understand how looking at the world around me the natual inclination is to say "it seems to prove design and therefore there must be a designer aka God". But that is because of what i was taught. I was taught that it makes no sense to evolve from a monkey like evolutionists claim. Well thats totally true, except evolution doesn't teach us that. The religions of the world (including the WT society) have twisted what evolution is really about. As an example, look at viruses. Viruses mutate and form resistance to drugs like anti-biotics - everyone knows that. But how do they do that? They change their structure - they evolve. So i have spent a lot of time learning the truth about what science teaches and it is fascinating and I have realized how little I know as a result of being "sheltered".

I could write for hours and hours about this stuff but I don't want to bore anyone here so all I encourage you to do is take it slowly and keep thinking. Your brain is your friend. Your blind faith is not - who the heck wants to invest time, money and energy in a path dictated by faith? I will gladly go where evidence is there to guide me because I know I only have one shot in life and I don't want to get to 75 years old and realize I have "put my life on hold" because I have been wrong in my beliefs. I am comfortable getting to 75 years old knowing i have lived and I did not find the right beliefs because I have decided that the purpose of my life is to live it.

Good luck.
Donkey

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A Very Sad Shell-Shocking Day

by Amazing1914 in

jw
friends

why is it our lot as former members of the watchtower organization to suffer so much emotional pain?

just when we think we have reached some level of putting it all behind us, something new pops up to bite us hard.

a couple that i have been very close to just sent me a very sad e-mail.

donkey

Amazing (Jim),

I no longer post here but still lurk and read a lot (this is true for my decision on all xJW dbs - not picking on this one). I do make exceptions like when one of my friends is not doing well or feeling well.

You and I have had quite a few in person conversations (live and by phone) so I think you know that I am a pretty solid atheist. Yet you also know that I am the only member of my family who is no longer a partcipating JW. I know you have clung to the idea that there is a God and/or a Jesus. My feelings on this are twofold:

1. How can someone as intelligent as yourself still give into belief vs logic.
2. I don't want to destroy your faith because if it allows you to have hope and peace it is beneficial to you.

As you know too, I am not only atheist but I am almost violently anti-religious. I repeat this for a reason (not just because I am a redundant retard - although I'll secretly confess the truth in that too). My point in covering this is to tell you that just yesterday I thought about going back to being an active JW. I appreciate that others are "out" and "free" and I will never believe anything the JW's teach as a governing doctrine in my life again, but due to my circumstances of being the only family member who is "out" I am so terribly lonely, Jim. I am by nature a people person and I make friends very easily because I can make people feel like a million dollars when I want to. Right now though, I have no friends and outside of work I pretty much just hang out by myself. I am not close to anyone because of the awkwardness of my situation. So I am left with thoughts of going back "in" just so that I can not cause massive division in my family and we can all be together and I can have lots of friends again. It basically boils down to choice between being as I currently am (I have been all alone like this for going on 4 years now and it sucks) or being part of a social group of friends again. My kids will soon be starting families of their own and it is possible they will be JW families so the thought of them rejecting me because they have spouses who would influence them to reject their "worldly/apostate" parent is particularly painful to me. I have endured a lot to keep my family together (details I will not ever mention on a db like this) and it has all been done for my children's sake.

I do not want to go into further detail here but I hope you can see why people might "return". Some people will return because they still believe its the truth. Others may still have the deep need to be controlled and have a structured life because they have received so much Pavlovian conditioning. And then others just need to do so for social reasons.

At this point I cannot see myself returning to the JW's. But when one has endured as much loneliness as I have because of my circumstances it is hard to say what I might do in the future. If it wasnt for the fact that i had children and family to look out for who knows what I might do. I go through the full gambit from returning, exiting more forcefully all the way to ending my own life because I see no point to being here.

So Jim, I guess what i am saying is that you cannot blame yourself. People have their own reasons for acting as they do and you are responsible to yourself. They are resonsible for themselves.

Take care my friend,
Donkey

61

Rich-o-meter ... how rich are you? (and some shocking stats)

by Simon in

jw
friends

first of all, see how rich you are here:.

http://www.channel4.com/4money/funnymoney/richometer/index.html.

chances are, you will be in the top 1% or 2% on the planet.. now, consider this:.

donkey

I do not see how that affected things you had posted prior so that they had to be removed and can only suppose that you are covering up things you have said or else are 'playing the martyr'. Either way, I find the "I'm deleting all my comments" act that you have done several times now a bit childish and pathetic.

something about pearls and swine I once read in a storybook came back to me..I am just childish and you are absolutely right

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Rich-o-meter ... how rich are you? (and some shocking stats)

by Simon in

jw
friends

first of all, see how rich you are here:.

http://www.channel4.com/4money/funnymoney/richometer/index.html.

chances are, you will be in the top 1% or 2% on the planet.. now, consider this:.

donkey

Donkey. Your "I'm taking my ball home and not playing" antics are getting very tiresome.

Simon, That is absolute crap....sorry to break the news to you. You once again post a bunch of nonsense to me without knowing the facts. I was quietly minding my own business posting some thoughts that have made me a little money and when I was attacked and called a "piece of shit" by one of the leftwing pets. If you know it all - how many times have I posted in the last month? My posting rate lately might be the lowest its been since I came to your board - and it should obviously be much lower still. So let me ask you - why did you pick on me, Simon? I was innocent. If anything I was being superbly kind hearted. If you don't believe me pull the records...but I have no need to defend myself. It is telling though that you did not tell the chief offender off but instead chose to pick on me. Go ahead and do whatever pleases you. Good luck Donkey

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