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some critics (here) of intelligent design theories claim that it is "self-refuting" to invoke design and / or complexity, as evidence for an intelligent designer explanation for things such as the origin of life, other complex biological structures, etc.
since this claim comes up somewhat frequently, i thought it should be given its own thread.
lol...the fact that the origin of God needs to be exempt from the arguments surrounding complex life mandating a designer is the silliest thing I have read in months. Even more silly is the expectation that those asking "where did God come from?" are told to accept that he has always existed simply because some stupid bible says that is the case.
Thanks for bringing humor to the fore you whacky Christans/Muslims/Other nutjobs
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on a day of confusion and tragedy in london please know that i am thinking about our friends in england and i am pulling for you guys!!.
donkey
On a day of confusion and tragedy in London please know that I am thinking about our friends in England and I am pulling for you guys!!
Donkey
since we cannot prove that god exists and believers claim that we need to have faith that he does indeed exist one can ask: can you truly love someone that you do not know exists?
if you went to your friends and declared your absolute love for someone and when they asked you who you loved you said: "i love jennifer with all my heart.
" and if the friends then asked to meet jennifer and you said "i have believe she exists but i have never met her, never communicated with her, never seen her..." would you your friends think you were cuckoo?
God does not want us to worship him because they fear hell, when you become christian and grow you will learn to overcome this fear of hell *although some still struggle at times* and worship god out of love not fear.This is different to Saddam people are only obeying Saddam out of fear.
We honour and worship god with love.
Hell is only reserved for those who reject god.
OK lets rewrite that as follows:
My imaginary friend does not want us to worship him because they fear hell, when you become a believer and grow you will learn to overcome this fear of hell *although some still struggle at times* and worship my imaginary friend out of love not fear.
This is different to Saddam people are only obeying Saddam out of fear.
We honour and worship our imaginary friends with love.
Hell is only reserved for those who reject imaginary friends.
Seem cuckoo yet? The rewritten piece is actually as accurate as the first piece though...but societal conditioning over which imaginary friends are acceptable changes the level of acceptance if you phrase it using different linguistics.
since we cannot prove that god exists and believers claim that we need to have faith that he does indeed exist one can ask: can you truly love someone that you do not know exists?
if you went to your friends and declared your absolute love for someone and when they asked you who you loved you said: "i love jennifer with all my heart.
" and if the friends then asked to meet jennifer and you said "i have believe she exists but i have never met her, never communicated with her, never seen her..." would you your friends think you were cuckoo?
Know as in, a mental/logical exercise? You can't prove or disprove anything on this method; it runs into a dead end, which is how it was meant to be. Love doesn't really grow from a cognitive exercise.Like I said....as long as these emotions exist for some mythical fictious creature named God it's perfectly fine.Know as in, a personal experience or personal revelation? Yes, you can love God in this way. Which is what I think is what we are to pursue... something real, not technical.
But if it is for some imaginary friend its screwy.
since we cannot prove that god exists and believers claim that we need to have faith that he does indeed exist one can ask: can you truly love someone that you do not know exists?
if you went to your friends and declared your absolute love for someone and when they asked you who you loved you said: "i love jennifer with all my heart.
" and if the friends then asked to meet jennifer and you said "i have believe she exists but i have never met her, never communicated with her, never seen her..." would you your friends think you were cuckoo?
Since we cannot prove that God exists and believers claim that we need to have faith that he does indeed exist one can ask: Can you truly love someone that you do not know exists?
If you went to your friends and declared your absolute love for someone and when they asked you who you loved you said: "I love Jennifer with all my heart." and if the friends then asked to meet Jennifer and you said "I have believe she exists but I have never met her, never communicated with her, never seen her..." would you your friends think you were cuckoo? But if you declare this love for God, whom you have never met, never spoken too, never seen, have no knowledge of his existence.....they will respect you as a stand up fellow!!!
Go figure,
so that brings me to the question of this thread: If the person you love is imaginary...is the love still real?
rambaldi, .
my faith has been destroyed by these apostates.
as a jw we are fed by the faithful and discreet slave at the appointed time.
Please don't worry about me....those of you who know me know that I am not hurting over my loss of faith in reality....its been too long since I believed any of the WTBS nonsense now and I am a pretty hardened atheist.
Jack
rambaldi, .
my faith has been destroyed by these apostates.
as a jw we are fed by the faithful and discreet slave at the appointed time.
Dear Brother Rambaldi,
I do not understand - I am skinned and thrown without a shepherd!!
537 BCE is established by what means? Please help me to understand how we get to 537BCE since I also cannot find any newspapers dated 537BCE (although I have searched through my stack all night).
If I am to have faith is that faith in Jehovah or in the Watchtower Society? If I cannot establish that the Watchtower Society was ordained per the prophecy of the 3 1/2 times then how can I have faith in them? Please help me to answer the question of 607BCE with substantiated evidence and you will win back a lost sheep. I cannot simply believe an organization in New York just because they say I must. Otherwise please go out on field service with me and let's try that approach on the householder: Hello Mr. Householder. We are today to bring the good news and have you join our Brooklyn based publishing company because the publishing company represents God. We know this to be true FOR NO OTHER REASON than the fact that the Brooklyn based publishing company tells us they are God's earthly representative. Can we baptise you?"
I hope using that approach we can see Isaiah 60:22 fulfilled in all it's glory.
Jack
PS - please Brother Rambaldi pray for me and forgive my attitude but I am discouraged. I gave up so much to follow the JW's and I am hurting over it.
rambaldi, .
my faith has been destroyed by these apostates.
as a jw we are fed by the faithful and discreet slave at the appointed time.
Can any Jehovah's Witness help me please?
My faith has fallen and I can't get it up.
rambaldi, .
my faith has been destroyed by these apostates.
as a jw we are fed by the faithful and discreet slave at the appointed time.
Rambaldi,
Please help me. My faith has been destroyed by these apostates. Here is why:
As a JW we are fed by the faithful and discreet slave at the appointed time. We know they are the faithful and discreet slave because when the millenial reign of Christ began in 1914 the 3 and 1/2 times began and culminated in 1919 when the governing body were released from prison.
We know the gentile times ended in 1914 because that marked the end of the 2,520 years as dreamed by nebuchadnezzar in the dream of the banded tree. We get to 1914 by starting at the removal of King Zedekiah in 607 BCE and counting forward 2,520 years (no year zero) and that period of gentile rule ended in 1914.
All of that makes perfect sense - AS long as King Zedekiah was removed by Nebuchadnezzar in 607BCE. Here is where I need the help. Can you prove to me that King Zedekiah's reign ended in 607BCE?
607BCE is foundational to us establishing that 1914 and therefore 1919 which is how we know the faithful and discreet slave is who they say they are. If on the other hand 607BCE was not the correct date for the removal of Zedekiah then 1914 and hence 1919 must also be incorrect and therefore the faitful and discreet slave were not the brothers who were imprisoned.
Please help me to work this out Zambaldi.
Thanks
Jack
normally i'm a disliker of all things gallic but tonight i could kiss their oniony butts.
Socialism and France belong together!!
