Posts by L3G

3

For the more studious types: question on the revised NWT

by L3G in

i know it's a small point, but i couldn't help noticing.

it's about a now inconsistent rendering in ecclesiastes.

to help visualize the matter:.

L3G

I know it's a small point, but I couldn't help noticing. It's about a now inconsistent rendering in Ecclesiastes. The older Fred Franz editions of the NWT had consistently rendered the Hebrew kesīl (Strong's 3684) as "stupid one(s)" throughout Ecclesiastes, but now the revised NWT has "fool," but only at a cluster of 4 instances from 7:5 to 9:17. There are 11 occurrences of the word from 2:14 to 7:4, and 3 more from 10:2 to 10:15. Only these middle 4, namely, 7:5, 7:6, 7:9, and 9:17, have been changed to "fool."

To help visualize the matter:

2:14 stupid one(s)

2:15 "

2:16 (twice) "

4:5 "

4:13 "

5:1 "

5:4 "

6:8 "

7:4 "

7:5 fool(s)

7:6 "

7:9 "

9:17 "

10:2 stupid one(s)

10:12 "

10:15 "

Why has this happened in only this middle cluster of the word? It can't be just coincidence.

I have an idea, but it's just that, only an idea. Of all these passages, ONE is popularly used to counsel those viewed as going wayward, those "getting offended." It's right in the middle of the 4, 7:9. In the NWT it reads:

Do not be quick to take offense (old NWT, Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended), for the taking of offense lodges (old NWT, rests) in the bosom of fools (old NWT, the stupid ones).

Of course this verse in the older editions suffered from Fred Franz's literalism, outdated English, and general eccentricities, and that's a factor here in now modernizing the translation. But why this inconsistent change in translating the word in only four verses that appear in sequence?

If you were around the Org for any time, you know that this passage is regularly used to counsel the brothers and especially the sisters, both from the platform and individually. It's popularity is up there with Prov. 3:5 or Heb. 10:25. Could it be that they wanted to make this popular "counseling verse" more palatable to those being counseled, less likely to hurt them by being called stupid, so they changed the instance in 7:9 to "fools" instead of "stupid ones," and they tried to pad this by also changing the 2 occurrences of the word before it and the one after it to "fool" too? The inconsistency has to stem from something.

If this is right, then it shows how they are more interested in applying the Bible's counsel (at least in this case) than in presenting what it really says, eh?

63

Being a JW Used to Be Fun :-)

by snowbird in

jw
friends

we found some people who were happy to welcome us into their homes, even offering us food and drink.. sometimes, they would flag us down and ask for the magazines, walk miles to the kh meetings, come to our defense if someone got ugly or rude.. now, jw's are either routinely ignored or outright vilified.. no one respects them anymore.. sad.. .

L3G

Again, some people at this forum will always say there was nothing fun about being/having been a Witness. Snowbird, I agree it used to be much better than now. The minstry was often memorable, just as you describe. I had many wonderful experiences doing the preaching and teaching work. The assemblies were true fun, especially working at them, like some of the reaction to time hooper's recent thread realate:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/280205/1/Anyone-recall-asemblies-actually-being-fun#.U5Xd2_3HMlI

The only way to have joy now is to live in the total fantasyland that most JWs live in. It's tragic, really.

Snowbird, are you still in?

Magnum, you words are soooo true:

Then it all started changing. I gradually began to see behind the curtain until I got a full glimpse of the little old powerless men behind that big old curtain. The magic is gone.

12

Recent refinements / changes in WTS

by Da.Furious in

we had our co visit and on his second talk he mentioned we need to be a pillar and support of the truth.

we can do this by accepting and working with all the changes, refinements and the speed of jehovahs organisation moving forward.. he listed the refinements and changes that occurred in the last couple of years:.

1- study edition of wt - allows the society to use more meaty articles and not worry about non jws understanding them.. 2- public edition of wt and awake.

L3G

YY2, thanks for the addition. Does it strike anyone else that the CO would leave out the NWT revision? Doesn't that show how removed the guy's thinking is from the Bible??? It's all the organizational hype...that's what he emphasized. Of course, he was probably given some prepared talk or outline from HQ, so it's not just him. The kingpins in the Service Department think this way, with the Bible way in the background. "Oh, yeah, the NWT revision, that too."

2

1. WT history & change toward youth 2. somehow repeating itself?

by L3G in

in da.furios's recent thread.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/280534/1/recent-refinements-changes-in-wts#.u5jgaf3holi.

he made this comment:.

L3G

In Da.Furios's recent thread

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/280534/1/Recent-refinements-changes-in-WTS#.U5JGAf3HOlI

he made this comment:

WTS/GB is run as a corporate [corporation?]. Managers should be young but it does not matter for the Board!

It got me thinking about WTS history. Do others remember how the Judge used to rant against "big business" along with the Roman Catholic Church and the Protestants, and the governments? (that is from studying it. None of us were around then!). He reguarly used to condemn the three in one breath. It was his sort of unholy trinity. Whatever happened to that? Now they'll still rant occasionaly against other religions, and the governments/wild beast, but what ever happened to "laying bare" the evils of the corporate world?

Is it because they have heavily adapted the business world's ways, that is, the manner in which Knorr, Fred Franz, and their cronies govern the organization? Thus they had to quit blasting them since they have been and are now still the WTS's model?

This then got me thinking about something else. When the Judge died, Knorr and Franz were young guys. JFR hand picked them along with the young Hayden Covington to take over. He wanted young leadership. In some sense, is WT history repeating itself, with this emphasis on young leadership?

Your thoughts on these two points?

32

The Rants of a Dumbass Elder Still Serving

by TTATTelder in

ok in the effort of full disclosure, i have had a couple of drinks and recently experienced a circuit assembly and a bad experience with a co.. i don't know where to effing begin.

first of all the circuit assembly was a joke.

half the assembly was about pioneering and selling your soul to be a no-pay salesman for the borg.

L3G

The organization was equated with God throughout the assembly.

That says it all...

2

SOCIETY OFFICIAL'S TESTIFY AT TRIAL

by Giordano in

society official's testify at trial .

in 1954 some of the most important leaders in the society were called on to give testimony in a court of law in scotland in 1954.the testimony is found here at http://hourglass2.com/historical/the-list/list7_09.htm.

nathan knorr was president of the society at this time, and fred franz was vice president.

L3G

Thx for the share but many people here have known about the Walsh trial for years. Perhaps good for some newbies here though.

31

Would blood mgmt improvements have been made without firm stand of JW's

by berrygerry in

http://o.canada.com/news/national/blood-transfusions.

thoughts?.

L3G

I know a board certified hematologist who once surprised me when he said that he'd never take a blood transfusion (we were just having a general conversation about surgery). Naturally, I asked him why. He surprised me more by telling me how unsafe they are! He didn't just mean HIV. He knows nothing about my JW background either.

BG, thx for the share.

25

2014 summer conventions to have live video and audio feeds

by dropoffyourkeylee in

i have heard from reliable source that this summer's conventions will feature video of various gb members as they speak and announce releases.

the regional (as opposed to the international conventions) will have numerous video monitors all around.

anyone else heard about this?.

L3G

I took in a district convention 2 or 3 years ago, but I could only take half of one day. I haven't been to a complete one in many years. It used to be a big deal for a local heavy elder to be given the part where a publication is released. When did they start taking that away and having GB members release them via video?

Didn't Jesus say something about seeking out the lowliest roles? Hmmm...

6

The Witness of the Food Pyramid

by processor in

the witness of the food pyramidrevised reprint from the witchtower, 12/2010the ... pyramid ... proves to be a storehouse of important truth.

millennial dawn, volume iii, thy kingdom come, page 314. as is commonly known, pastor russell thought that the great pyramid of gizeh was gods stone witness, corroborating biblical time periods.

(jehovahs witnesses proclaimers of gods kingdom, page 201) he believed that it would have been erected by melchizedek according to a divine construction plan.

L3G

FUNNNNNY! LOL!

41

The CO visit this week he says" In August..."

by James Jackson in

jw
friends

up until 5 years ago, the co used to work up their own parts for specfic congregations in their circuits.

everything is up to script, in other words, every co in the country are givings the same talks in the local congregations they visit.

what got me to cringe is when he said at the meeting, trying to encourage everyone to pioneer this august; he said :" you know this october it will be 100 years since gods kingdom began ruling, remember what happen when joshua told the israelites to march around jericho on the seventh day, and what happened when they let out a great war cry?

L3G

"Everything is up to script, in other words, every CO in the Country is giving the same talks in the local congregations they visit."

I'm shocked. How unlike all the other trends that have been going on since the 1980s. Obsessed with controlling everything!

Stillin, thx for the Pete Townsend paraphrase.