Posts by Oubliette

30

First Post and Using the memorial to wake up family members

by dgeero in

jw
friends

this is my first post here though i've been a long time lurker.

my story in a nutshell:.

started having doubts after the new silver sword and watchtower study regarding overlapping generations.

Oubliette

Welcome!

It's hard to talk openly and honesty with someone until they are ready.

556

The Watchtower are Right About Blood...

by cofty in

... but, they fail to take note of one important detail.. i believe that if we are going to have any chance of reasoning with a jw about blood, this is the place we need to begin.. don't try to convince them that it was only a dietary law.

it wasn't, and they will never go along with it.. don't tell them that saving a life is more important than obeying a law, even a seemingly trivial one.

they take pride in obedience.

Oubliette

The other problem is that, as you well know Cofty, JWs are conditioned to unquestioningly obey whatever is current JW/WT doctrine/policy/practices.

The Bible really has nothing to do with it.

JW claims to the contrary, it does not matter what the Bible really teaches, let alone what you, I or anyone else thinks it says. It only matters what the WT leadership says it says.

I posit that the Bible has become little more than a prop for this religion.

556

The Watchtower are Right About Blood...

by cofty in

... but, they fail to take note of one important detail.. i believe that if we are going to have any chance of reasoning with a jw about blood, this is the place we need to begin.. don't try to convince them that it was only a dietary law.

it wasn't, and they will never go along with it.. don't tell them that saving a life is more important than obeying a law, even a seemingly trivial one.

they take pride in obedience.

Oubliette

cofty: If anybody would like to play Devils' Advocate on this I would be interested

Your reasoning is interesting. The trouble is it assumes that you or I or anyone else could get a JW to carefully and critically examine their own beliefs for coherency, continuity, consistency, logic or any number of reasons.

If we could get them to do that, there would be no need for such subtle arguments such as the ones you put forth in your OP.

Since it is nearly impossible to get most JWs to see even the most glaring of problems with their beliefs, I do not believe you will be very likely to get them to examine this controversial doctrine with the thoughtful care that your argument requires.

When someone is ready to question, they will do so on their own. They will generally start with the loose threads which their own mind calls to their attention. Once they start tugging on those threads the whole thing quickly begins to unravel.

All that being said, I do appreciate the thoughtful approach you have given to this issue. I know it is something you have carefully considered for many years.

7

The True God of Jehovah's Witnesses...Unity

by freemindfade in

i was unable to sleep because of my ongoing turmoil with my family and my wife's ongoing naivety about what they are trying to accomplish.

and i came to another thought about this group, the witnesses.

they say "i put jehovah first!!

Oubliette

It's time for your history lesson ...

UNITY AT ALL COSTS

Walsh Trial Excerpt

During the Scottish trial the directors of the Watchtower Society admitted ....

THE SCOTTISH TRIAL - 1954

The following testimony excerpts are from the Pursuer's Proof of Douglas Walsh vs The Right Honourable James Latham Clyde, MP, PC, as representing the Minister of Labour and National Service. Copies of the complete transcript or parts thereof may be obtained from the Scottish Records Office, H.M. General Register House, Edinburgh, Scotland. The numbers following the quotations show the transcript page on which the testimony is found.

HAYDEN C COVINGTON - Former Lawyer for the Watchtower Society

Q. Is it not vital to speak the truth on religious matters?

A. It certainly is.

Q. You have promulgated - forgive the word - false prophecy?

A. We have. I do not think we have promulgated false prophecy, there have been statements that were erroneous, that is the way I put it, and mistaken.

Q. It was promulgated as a matter which must be believed by all members of Jehovah's witnesses that the Lord's Second Coming took place in 1874?

(A short discussion of evidence given by Fred W Franz about 1874 takes place here.)

Q. That was the publication of false prophecy?

A. That was the publication of a false prophecy, it was a false statement or an erroneous statement in fulfillment of a prophecy that was false or erroneous.

Q. And that had to be believed by the whole of Jehovah's Witnesses?

A. Yes, because you must understand, we must have unity, we cannot have disunity with a lot of people going every way, an army is supposed to march in step.

Q. Back to the point now, a false prophecy was promulgated? A. I agree to that.

Q. It had to be accepted by Jehovah's witnesses?

A. That is correct.

Q. If a member of Jehovah's witnesses took the view himself that that prophecy was wrong, and said so, would he be disfellowshipped?

A. Yes, if he said so, and kept on persisting in creating trouble, because if the whole organisation believes one thing, even though it be erroneous, and somebody else starts on his own trying to put his ideas across, then there is a disunity and trouble, there cannot be harmony, there cannot be marching ...... Our purpose is to have unity.

Q. Unity at all costs?

A. Unity at all costs, because we believe and are sure that Jehovah God is using our organisation,the governing body of our organisation, to direct it, even though mistakes are made from time to time.

Q. A unity based on an enforced acceptance of false prophecy?

A. That is conceded to be true.

Q. And the person who expresses his view, as you say, that it was wrong, and was disfellowshipped, would be in breach of the covenant, if he was baptised?

A. That is correct.

Q. And as you said yesterday expressly, would be worthy of death?

A. I think....

Q. Would you say yes or no?

A. I will answer yes, unhesitatingly.

Q. Do you call that religion?

A. It certainly is.

Q. Do you call that Christianity?

A. I certainly do.

LOL Deut 13:1-5

by Jonathan Drake in

omg i've never read this before or if i did i never caught it... .

13 [a]if a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder,2 and the sign or the wonder comes true, concerning which he spoke to you, saying, let us go after other gods (whom you have not known) and let us serve them, 3 you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams; for the lord your god is testing you to find out if you love the lord your god with all your heart and with all your soul.

4 you shall follow the lordyour god and fear him; and you shall keep his commandments, listen to his voice, serve him, and cling to him.

Oubliette

Quit trying to make sense out of nonsense.

It's all about control.

21

A new low in public shaming (and groveling)

by Captain Schmideo2 in

jw
friends

a local elderette at my former hall (the same type person who posts selfies while out in "service") posted this public admonishment.

the responses are so pathetic.

these are all adults, but they still act like scared children:.

Oubliette

I was there helping out, ... invisibly! Just like Jesus.

80

In a nutshell, what is the wackiest jw thing?

by stuckinarut2 in

what is the wackiest...strangest....most unusual jw teaching or practice?

Oubliette

The wackiest JW thing?

That God would pick THIS GUY to represent him:

15

I've decided to officially disassociate myself

by Garrett in

jw
friends

hey guys, .

i just wanted to thank you all for all of your input, support and help over the past few months.

i've decided to officially disassociate myself from the organization and move on with my life.

Oubliette

Garrett: I haven't had depression since I left, I feel much more confident and I feel so free and liberated that at times I'm not too sure what to do with it.

Good for you. Many people have the same experience.

Welcome to the rest of your life!

19

"BRAZEN CONDUCT" The current way of enforcing disciplinary action.

by stuckinarut2 in

the penalty of this charge??

yes, disfellowshipping.. bad association?

excessive time at work?

Oubliette

Stuck: they have refused the help of the elders who have offered to do shepherding calls on them

This is why I spin it around and say I have a personal family issue with which I need their help. (It involves attempts at reconciliation with family members alienated by my ex-wife. They are all active JWs).

"Please help me reconcile with my estranged children!" I plead.

But Elders naturally don't want to get involved in this mess.

I say, "If you won't help me with this, then we really have nothing else to talk about. This is the cause of all of my frustration and depression. This is the reason I can't go to meetings. It's too depressing."

54

It's time to say goodbye to JWD - I sold it !

by Simon in

a week or so ago i posted that the forum was 15 years old (15 years of jehovahs-witness.com) and hinted that there may be some news to announce about the site:.

i also may have some other news to share soon about the future of the site so stay posted.

well, now i can announce it - i sold it !.

Oubliette

You had me ... for about 3.75 nanoseconds!