Oubliette

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Posts by Oubliette

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  55

  Are we pro-shunning or against it?

  by Simon in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  just to continue my theme about religious freedom and how we approach criticizing the wts, i've also been thinking about 'shunning'.. i think shunning is the most unifying complaint that most ex-members of religious groups that practice it have in common.

  it is the layer that runs under every other complaint - whatever the reason for leaving it seems "... and i was shunned" can be added to it as the final rap on the charge sheet.. of course it seems like a no-brainer to many of us and we hardly ever stop to really think about it - shunning is bad, the watchtower believes in shunning therefore the watchtower is bad.

  they need to stop it.

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  Oubliette

  BTW, who are the "we" in the thread title?
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  55

  Are we pro-shunning or against it?

  by Simon in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  just to continue my theme about religious freedom and how we approach criticizing the wts, i've also been thinking about 'shunning'.. i think shunning is the most unifying complaint that most ex-members of religious groups that practice it have in common.

  it is the layer that runs under every other complaint - whatever the reason for leaving it seems "... and i was shunned" can be added to it as the final rap on the charge sheet.. of course it seems like a no-brainer to many of us and we hardly ever stop to really think about it - shunning is bad, the watchtower believes in shunning therefore the watchtower is bad.

  they need to stop it.

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  Oubliette

  R&R: I believe any religion has a right to throw you out of church for bad conduct. They own the building and have the right to not allow any member who's conduct is unbecoming of the congregation.

  Agreed!
  

  R&R: They don't have any rights out in the streets, funeral homes,hospitals,wedding banquet halls and any other meeting place. The only reason they shun members is to scare the rest of the members (that you will be in the same predicament if you do the same).

  Exactly!

  Ultimately, with cults such as JWs, the practice of institutionalized shunning is really about control, not morals.
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  101

  You will never grow old in this current system of things... - Awake, May 22, 1969 p. 15

  by cappytan in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  check this out.

  got this bound volume from my dad.. .

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  Oubliette

  VI, it's a pretty great thought!
  
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  55

  Are we pro-shunning or against it?

  by Simon in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  just to continue my theme about religious freedom and how we approach criticizing the wts, i've also been thinking about 'shunning'.. i think shunning is the most unifying complaint that most ex-members of religious groups that practice it have in common.

  it is the layer that runs under every other complaint - whatever the reason for leaving it seems "... and i was shunned" can be added to it as the final rap on the charge sheet.. of course it seems like a no-brainer to many of us and we hardly ever stop to really think about it - shunning is bad, the watchtower believes in shunning therefore the watchtower is bad.

  they need to stop it.

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  Oubliette

  Yes, I believe institutionalized shunning is wrong.

  It demands absolute compliance of all individuals in the group in that they must blindly and without question accept the decision of the leaders, usually without even knowing why.

  It obviates free choice. It destroys relationships and ruins families. It is wrong.
  
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  10

  Breaking away from the JW programming and mind control

  by suavojr in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  it amazes me how much power mind control can have over your emotions, your behavior and thoughts.

  let me explain, apathy has taken over a close family that my wife and i care about.

  the cognitive dissonance within this family is huge.

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  Oubliette

  they have been marked as Spiritually WEAK.

  "Spiritually weak" in JW-lingo usually means spiritually strong and independent in reality.

  I've heard it takes about a month of recovery for every year in a cult.

  
  

  
  
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  80

  Ayn Rand - Opinions?

  by cappytan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for those of you familiar with ayn rand and her ideas on morality, rationality and reason, what is your opinion of those ideas?.

  i'm talking about her actual ideas, not the ideals that libertarianism has adopted and, in some cases, perverted.

  do you think she's a charlatan?

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  Oubliette

  I know that her novella, Anthem, has helped at least one young JW wake up and see that he was in a cult!
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  101

  You will never grow old in this current system of things... - Awake, May 22, 1969 p. 15

  by cappytan in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  check this out.

  got this bound volume from my dad.. .

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  Oubliette

  For those that foolishly cling to JW false "theology" I offer this:

  The Curse

  I curse you: Everyone you know is going to die. You are going to die. And you are never, ever going to see God's Kingdom. You hang on in vain to false hopes because you are too afraid to face the truth, the real truth: Everything you believe is a lie and you are too cowardly to see it.

  I'm taking it all from you and you will never have it back, try as you might. From this moment on, your hope is gone from you.

  -
  
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  101

  You will never grow old in this current system of things... - Awake, May 22, 1969 p. 15

  by cappytan in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  check this out.

  got this bound volume from my dad.. .

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  Oubliette

  My raised-a-JW ex-wife told me about this not long after we were married in the '80s. She was about 10 when that article came out.

  I remember saying something like, "But look: you DID graduate high school and now you're married! They were clearly wrong about this."

  The deer-in-the-headlights look on her face was unforgettable. I had converted to being a JW about 5 years before and knew nothing about these kinds of statements by the WTBTS. I stuffed the cognitive dissonance for a few years until the mounting evidence became so overwhelming I could no longer ignore it.

  Finally, around 2002-2003, when I found out about the UN/NGO debacle I knew this religion was a farce. I tried to get my now ex-wife to wake up and admit that the religion was false. She refused to hear it. I tried to leave with my kids, but they sided with their mother.

  A year or so after I left the religion, my youngest asked me why. I showed him this article. He accused me of being an apostate. I said how can I be an apostate? I'm just showing you what the WTBTS published. They were wrong then and they are wrong now.

  That was the last time we spoke. My children continue to shun me even though I am technically a JW in good standing. They know I don't believe it and because I pointed out the hypocrisy of the WT leadership they cut me off.

  Let's review: It's a cult!

  
  
  
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  51

  CO has been coming to my door. Would like 1 or 2 solid and easy arguments.

  by The Laser Viking in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i am 6th generation.

  i have been out for a few years.. back story on the situation:.

  i had a co come by while going door-to-door in the neighborhood.

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  Oubliette

  Laser Viking: I am looking for one or two solid and basic points that I can make that would demand an answer/explanation.

  1. Why can't the leaders of this religion decide upon a consistent definition/understanding of the relatively common word: "generation"?
  2. If the current understanding of the FDS is correct, then what was the prior understanding?
  3. Why does the organization now have a TV station similar to the 700 Club and other religions when they have lambasted televangelists for decades?
  4. What would you think of me if I said, "The Watchtower does not have any authority over me," or "I do not answer to the Watchtower"? That's what I thought you'd say. So why then did Gerrit Lösch, the longest standing current member of the Governing Body, state that in a sworn Declaration to the California Superior Court, County of San Diego on February 4th, 2014?
     

  NOTES:
  

  FYI:The Watchtower has promoted six different and contradictory explanations of what the expression "this generation" means.
  

  
  “I do not answer to Watchtower” – Stunning Gerrit Lösch declaration revealed
  http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/i-do-not-answer-to-watchtower-stunning-gerrit-losch-declaration-revealed/comment-page-2
  
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  77

  Neanderthal man

  by scary21 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my ex husband and father of my daughter was never baptized but is still a believer in the wt.. a couple years ago we were talking about evolution ( which he does not believe in ) i brought up the subject of the neanderthals and how we all have their dna except africans ( the ones that never left africa ).

  he said neanderthals are apes and not humans and jw's do not teach that they are humans.

  i said i believe they do.. in the life- how did it get here book, under the sub heading " the human family "is says " neanderthal man....... was undoubtedly human.. his response was " they are just talking about what other people believe " ahhhhh .

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  Oubliette

  Here is another take on the homonid/homonin nomenclature from the Australian Museum:
  

  Hominid and hominin – what’s the difference?
  
  The terms ‘hominid’ and ‘hominin’ are frequently used in human evolution.
  
  New definitions
  
  The most commonly used recent definitions are:
  
  Hominid – the group consisting of all modern and extinct Great Apes (that is, modern humans, chimpanzees, gorillas and orangutans plus all their immediate ancestors).
  
  Hominin – the group consisting of modern humans, extinct human species and all our immediate ancestors (including members of the genera Homo, Australopithecus, Paranthropus and Ardipithecus).
  

  Hominid and hominin – what’s the difference?

  The terms ‘hominid’ and ‘hominin’ are frequently used in human evolution.

  New definitions

  The most commonly used recent definitions are:

  Hominid – the group consisting of all modern and extinct Great Apes (that is, modern humans, chimpanzees, gorillas and orang-utans plus all their immediate ancestors).

  Hominin – the group consisting of modern humans, extinct human species and all our immediate ancestors (including members of the genera Homo, Australopithecus, Paranthropus and Ardipithecus).

  - See more at: http://australianmuseum.net.au/hominid-and-hominin-whats-the-difference#sthash.UpOGtXy4.dpuf