Posts by Oubliette

25

Today's (4/12) WT study - all about Jesus

by OneEyedJoe in

today's watchtower study article is all about jesus.

this stuck out to me after a year of hanging out on here where one frequent point of criticism is that jws claim to be christians but never talk about jesus.. anyone think it's a coincidence that today was the "special talk" follow-up to the memorial?

i think not - this is the most attended sunday meeting of the year, complete with many ubms, studies, and miscellaneous other potential victims who have been subjected to a coordinated effort to pressure them into attending.

Oubliette

OEJ: It quickly got to the point that there was no challenge to it and I got bored.

Shooting fish in a barrel.

233

What is BELIEF ?

by EdenOne in

stemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.

what exactly is "belief"?.

is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?

Oubliette

Xanthippe: No Oub both statements are about belief, neither are about knowledge. Sorry, going to watch Horizon now- astronomy programme.

I guess you missed my point about neither statement needing to be true or accurate.

Enjoy your tv show!

233

What is BELIEF ?

by EdenOne in

stemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.

what exactly is "belief"?.

is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?

Oubliette

Xanthippe: I think they are the same statement grammatically and semantically.

How can you think that?

One explicitly asserts possessing knowledge whereas the other states not having that knowledge.

I suggest you reread my analogy of the murder trial.

Saying you believe someone is innocent of a crime is NOT the same as saying you do not believe they are guilty. (Note that neither of these beliefs need be correct. The person might actually be guilty, but this is irrelevant to the point I am making).

One person is convinced of the accused person's innocence, the other is unconvinced of his guilt.

25

Today's (4/12) WT study - all about Jesus

by OneEyedJoe in

today's watchtower study article is all about jesus.

this stuck out to me after a year of hanging out on here where one frequent point of criticism is that jws claim to be christians but never talk about jesus.. anyone think it's a coincidence that today was the "special talk" follow-up to the memorial?

i think not - this is the most attended sunday meeting of the year, complete with many ubms, studies, and miscellaneous other potential victims who have been subjected to a coordinated effort to pressure them into attending.

Oubliette

OEJ: it took me a while after waking up to realize the level of deceptive recruiting that goes on, and I'm obviously still noticing new layers to it all the time.

Good for you!

As I was "waking up" I committed to really studying every WT "Study Article" intensely, scrutinizing it as carefully as possible, looking for any and all instances of logical fallacies, assertions made without evidence, contradictions and dishonest/misleading statements. I did this religiously for almost two years.

This exercise was eye-opening to say the least.

I found that every single WT study article is an exercise in propaganda. In that two year period, I was not able to find a single solitary article that was not rife with propaganda, lies, fallacies and deceptions. Not one.

Let's review: It's a cult!

-

233

What is BELIEF ?

by EdenOne in

stemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.

what exactly is "belief"?.

is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?

Oubliette

FMF: Lack of belief in god is not a claim that there is NO god. This is where people can't understand atheists.

Yes.

Imagine a person is accused of committing a brutal murder. During the trial, evidence is presented by both sides, the prosecution and the defense, to the jury.

At the conclusion of the trial, the jury deliberates. One juror says, "I believe he is innocent." Another says, "I do not believe he is guilty."

Although these may superficially seem to be equivalent statements, they are not. Juror #1 is asserting that the evidence presented convinced her of the accused's innocence, whereas Juror #2 is stating that the evidence was not enough to persuade her of his guilt beyond the proverbial reasonable doubt.

It is similar when people discuss their belief about whether or not God exists.

Some assert a belief that there is no God. God does not exist.

Others may state that they do not believe God exists. These are not equivalent statements.

"I believe there is no God," is not equal to: "I do not believe in God."

I've quoted it before on this forum, but I think it's appropriate to repeat it here, Carl Sagan's thoughts on the subject:

Those who raise questions about the God hypothesis and the soul hypothesis are by no means all atheists. An atheist is someone who is certain that God does not exist, someone who has compelling evidence against the existence of God. I know of no such compelling evidence. Because God can be relegated to remote times and places and to ultimate causes, we would have to know a great deal more about the universe than we do to be sure that no such God exists. To be certain of the existence of God and to be certain of the nonexistence of God seem to me to be the confident extremes in a subject so riddled with doubt and uncertainty as to inspire very little confidence indeed. - Conversations with Carl Sagan (2006), edited by Tom Head, p. 70

The subject of evidence, what it is and what it is not, is another subject for another time.

233

What is BELIEF ?

by EdenOne in

stemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.

what exactly is "belief"?.

is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?

Oubliette

Simon: we don't believe the pope is some divine representative of an imaginary super-being.

But some people do.

25

Today's (4/12) WT study - all about Jesus

by OneEyedJoe in

today's watchtower study article is all about jesus.

this stuck out to me after a year of hanging out on here where one frequent point of criticism is that jws claim to be christians but never talk about jesus.. anyone think it's a coincidence that today was the "special talk" follow-up to the memorial?

i think not - this is the most attended sunday meeting of the year, complete with many ubms, studies, and miscellaneous other potential victims who have been subjected to a coordinated effort to pressure them into attending.

Oubliette

OEJ: Anyone who doesn't think jws use deceptive recruiting tactics should think again.

I don't think there are many of those people on this forum.

233

What is BELIEF ?

by EdenOne in

stemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.

what exactly is "belief"?.

is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?

Oubliette

Note in the above definitions, it is not a requirement that something be TRUE for it to be a belief, only that an individual accepts it as such.

Words have meaning based on context.

In communication, it is the obligation of the originator of a message to ensure that they say what they mean. They should also be sure that their message is worded clearly and in a form understandable by the person(s) they are communicating to. Most people are not very good at this.

It is also the obligation of the receiver of a message to try to, in good faith, understand what the communicator is trying to say. Most people are also not very good at this.

When you consider these facts, it's amazing that we ever get anything straight.

233

What is BELIEF ?

by EdenOne in

stemming from the 'absentheism' thread, an old question came to my mind.

what exactly is "belief"?.

is it the same to ask: "do you believe in god?

Oubliette

be·lief

bəˈlēf/

noun: belief; plural noun: beliefs

an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.
"his belief in the value of hard work"
- something one accepts as true or real; a firmly held opinion or conviction.
  "contrary to popular belief, Aramaic is a living language"
synonyms:
opinion, view, conviction, judgment, thinking, way of thinking, idea, impression, theory, conclusion, notion
"it's my belief that age is irrelevant"
a religious conviction.
"Christian beliefs"
synonyms : ideology, principle, ethic, tenet, canon; More
doctrine, teaching, dogma, article of faith, creed, credo
"traditional beliefs"
trust, faith, or confidence in someone or something.
"a belief in democratic politics"
synonyms: faith, trust, reliance, confidence, credence
"belief in the value of hard work"

29

Mystery Letters of "Human Apostate" talk 2013 summer convention and its connection to Lev.5:1

by Bill Covert in

greetings from redding calif. my name is bill covert.

i am one of those viet nam war felons for having to refuse communtiy service in lieu of military induction per direct instructions from ny, so i have been around for a while.

i am the writer of the letters mentioned in the human apostate talk of the 2013 conventions.

Oubliette

Hi Bill,

Your OP is confusing.

Your write about a particular comment in an old WT which was changed when the bound volumes were made:

It was removed when that WT was made into the bound volume, thus a deception being made.

Posters on this site have pointed out countless examples of such WT revisions. They're as common as dandelions in a summer field.

THERE IS ABSOLUTLY NO BIBLE basis for the WBTS 'Gestapo' policy of having brothers inform on their brothers, this is a DECEPTION.

Correct. Did you not know: It's a cult!

But I gotta' say, I'm really unsure why you would write this:

And you have an entire elder body refusing to honor the instructions of Lev.5:1.

First you say there is not "Bible basis" for JWs to turn other JWs in and then you get upset that some JWs won't do it.

It appears you want it both ways.

That being said, that this religion is filled with and run by corrupt individuals is well-known to all of us here. You're preaching to the choir, buddy.

You are apparently very angry over what you've seen and what has personally been done to you. I get that. You're not alone. Many of us here have suffered similarly.

Oubliette