Posts by Oubliette

372

On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post

by StarTrekAngel in

i am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.

i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.

it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.

Oubliette

Cofty: The most reliable way to get loads of positive responses to a post or thread is to say things such as...

And you, in turn, are also right!

I've noticed that commenting directly on the subject gets the least amount of responses.

372

On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post

by StarTrekAngel in

i am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.

i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.

it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.

Oubliette

Cofty: It would be really helpful if those who say other's beliefs should be "respected" would define in practical terms exactly what they mean by "respect".

This is why I posted a definition of respect on the previous page.

It does not seem to be an appropriate word to use for beliefs in general let alone any in particular.

I noticed that, at least so for, no one in the "Beliefs Must Be Respected" camp has responded to that post.

372

On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post

by StarTrekAngel in

i am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.

i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.

it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.

Oubliette

Hi all, just perused the last few pages while on my lunch break.

I have to say, I'm curious to see how this thread has progressed. Several posters have really tried to elucidate the issue while the remaining ones seem entrenched in confusing the basic ideas involved.

People are not their beliefs!

It is possible to respect an individual and yet disagree with their beliefs, even to think those beliefs are wrong, possibly harmful.

It is also possible to not respect an individual but still share certain beliefs with them.

The two are not inseparably entwined.

Although it may vary from culture to culture, respect is general something someone earns due to their achievements, qualities or position. A certain amount of respect may even be granted to complete strangers; whether that level of respect increases or decreases depends on their continued actions and behaviors.

When we consider the meaning of the verb respect, I'm not sure it is even appropriate to use it in connection with any set of beliefs:

admire (someone or something) deeply, as a result of their abilities, qualities, or achievements.

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Frankly, the meaning of the word belief is itself somewhat problematic:

Definition of BELIEF

a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing
something believed; especially : a tenet or body of tenets held by a group
conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon especially when based on examination of evidence

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Depending on our own particular background, education, training and disposition, we may find that one of these definitions seems more right than another. Context does matter.

I'd like to end this post with a short excerpt from an interview with Bertrand Russell.

He was asked by the interviewer, "Do you think there’s a practical reason for having a religious belief, for many people?

Russell: Well, there can’t be a practical reason for believing what isn’t true. That’s quite... at least, I rule it out as impossible. Either the thing is true, or it isn’t. If it is true, you should believe it, and if it isn’t, you shouldn’t. And if you can’t find out whether it’s true or whether it isn’t, you should suspend judgment. But you can’t... it seems to me a fundamental dishonesty and a fundamental treachery to intellectual integrity to hold a belief because you think it’s useful, and not because you think it’s true.

372

On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post

by StarTrekAngel in

i am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.

i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.

it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.

Oubliette

The rebel: the opposite of love is knowledge

It would be more accurate to say: the opposite of love is apathy.

372

On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post

by StarTrekAngel in

i am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.

i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.

it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.

Oubliette

The thing that is wrong is when people clearly do it to retaliate against someone they don't like rather than the point of a post.

Agreed.

If you have never done that then well done.

I may have in the past in one of my less-than-finer moments. But I have not done it lately and certainly not on this thread.

372

On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post

by StarTrekAngel in

i am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.

i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.

it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.

Oubliette

With all due respect Simon, I disagree with you about the kittens sub-thread being off-topic. As Bohm opined, it was likely that if I posted something as completely innocuous and unobjectionable as a picture of a kitten some would "Dislike" that. It only took a few minutes for that to happen, proving my point that there are posters on this forum that refuse to engage on content but have no problem making outright personal attacks or taking the lazy, passive-aggressive route of clicking on the "Dislike" feature. I can't imagine this is in harmony with your intention for including this feature on your forum.

Again, I submit that this proves my thesis in agreement with that particular aspect of the OP.

Over the last few weeks I have seen others and have myself been the object of such personal attacks for a variety of reasons ranging from:

disagreeing with an action that another well-respected forum member made and chose to share publicly, to
asking a poster for clarification of an OP which I found confusing, to
criticizing Lloyd Evans

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In these three cases (and they could not have been more different) I and others tried to differentiate between discussing content and personal attacks. This distinction was appreciated by some, but completely lost on others. The ones it was lost on are the ones that make meaningful, even rigorous debate impossible on a forum such as this.

372

On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post

by StarTrekAngel in

i am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.

i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.

it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.

Oubliette

Maybe someone simply disliked your demand for explanations.

Perhaps. Although my intention was a request not a demand, but I'll concede that might be how they perceived it. Either way, since that person chose to not respond I guess we'll never know.

What you see as "temerity," I see as an example of passive-aggressive failure to engage on content which is what I believe this thread is really about and therefore very on topic.

I see you've been busy editing out posts you don't like and/or approve. Can you please explain how that helps the discussion?

15

10 reasons why you should never have a religion

by tornapart in

i found this great article.

it's rather long but a good read for anyone interested.

the 10 bullet points are:-.

Oubliette

James: What is so ironic about Atheists? We are always talking about God. LOL

It is ironic, but it is the root part of the word which many of us use to define our beliefs or lack thereof (if you prefer).

372

On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post

by StarTrekAngel in

i am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.

i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.

it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.

Oubliette

I would like to add to my previous comments and affirm the part of StarTrekAngel's post with which I concur: it is possible to disagree with someone's comments and/or beliefs without attacking them personally.

It is also possible to read what others have to say without taking it personally.

As CodedLogic posted earlier in this thread:

Don't take it personally,
Don't make it personal

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Those are good rules to post by!

372

On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post

by StarTrekAngel in

i am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.

i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.

it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.

Oubliette

It is clear for me to see when someone makes multiple consecutive votes against posts by the same poster which are obviously not based on the content of the post but who made them. It's childish and won't be tolerated.

Thank you. That is a policy/practice which I would approve.

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In the meantime, quit yer bitchin' about it.

If you're referring to my comments about the "Like/Dislike" feature, it would appear that you are missing the point I was trying to make. Allow me to attempt to clarify. I am neither complaining nor "bitchin'" about it. I am pointing out that it is a feature that is frequently misused by people that won't engage in meaningful dialogue. I believe this is extremely relevant to the point and content of the OP.

Categorizing my observations as complaints or "bitchin'" is neither accurate nor productive.

I asked for clarification from EdenOne. He obliged but someone else "Disliked" my request. I asked said anonymous person to explain. They have not.

A few pages back I posted several links to lists of commonly held false beliefs that ranged from trivial to dangerously harmful. I think it's odd that no one seemed interesting commenting on those.

This thread seems to have a lot of really good content, but a lot of it has been derailed by a few posters that seem to enjoy personally attacking each other no matter what the topic. That is unfortunate.