EdenOne: Just because isn't included in the definition, it doesn't mean it's ruled out.
True.
EdenOne: It can be worded "due regard for the beliefs of others"
False. You don't get to change the meaning of words to fit your beliefs.
Oubliette
JoinedPosts by Oubliette
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372
On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post
by StarTrekAngel ini am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.
i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.
it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.
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Oubliette
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372
On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post
by StarTrekAngel ini am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.
i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.
it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.
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Oubliette
EdenOne: it can be argued that for evil people to do good things, it takes religion.
It could, but you would lose. There is simply too much evidence against that thesis.
But more importantly you are missing the central point which you yourself are trying to prove. That particular line of reasoning you proffered is just a red herring.
Focus.
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372
On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post
by StarTrekAngel ini am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.
i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.
it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.
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Oubliette
EdenOne: My point [is] if the Christian-themed belief of that particular individual is worthy of respect or not.
I can easily respect the person and what they do without respecting their beliefs. Easily!
Two questions:
- Is it really in keeping with the meaning of the word "respect" to use it in connection with beliefs? (I've asked that question twice on this thread, even posting a dictionary definition of it). As far as I can tell, you nor anyone else has addressed that with the exception of Cofty, who expressed a similar sentiment as I.
- That being said, to which particular "Christian-themed belief of that particular individual" are you referring when you ask your question? Christianity is a collection of many different and often conflicting and internally incoherent beliefs. In point of fact, there is no way you could even come up with any definitive listing of what Christian beliefs are and are not.
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If you carefully and thoughtfully ponder these two points I think you'll see what those of us that disagree with you have been trying to get you to consider.
Also, you must separate what a person does from what they believe.
Oubliette.
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372
On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post
by StarTrekAngel ini am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.
i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.
it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.
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Oubliette
EdenOne, you bring up an interesting, although false, dichotomy. The basic problem with your scenario is that it is very one-sided. You only tell the good, positive side of the story--the humanitarian believer--while ignoring the fact that there have also been many atrocities committed by religious zealots who acted according to their beliefs, often the very same set of beliefs as your good Samaritan.
In contrast, there have likewise been a great many good deeds done by nonbelievers, secular humanists (with or without that particular self-identification) that are simply altruistic by nature. That behavior can just as easily be explained through the lens of evolutionary biology.
This is why it is so essential to separate what a person does from what they believe. They are not--and I've attempted to make this point repeatedly on this thread--intrinsically linked.
In the words of Steven Weinberg, “With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
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How to handle invites to dinner after Sunday meeting?
by FadeToBlack ini have not been to a meeting for over a year.
yesterday, when my wife returned from the 1 day assembly, i got an invite for dinner next sunday.
i said i would think about it, to be honest, as nice as the people are, it would just be boring listening to their comments about everything jw.
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Oubliette
I may or may not accept. Sometimes I hang out with non-JW family members for similar reasons.
Are they good cooks? Will there be wine?
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372
On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post
by StarTrekAngel ini am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.
i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.
it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.
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Oubliette
Cofty: The most reliable way to get loads of positive responses to a post or thread is to say things such as...
And you, in turn, are also right!
I've noticed that commenting directly on the subject gets the least amount of responses.
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372
On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post
by StarTrekAngel ini am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.
i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.
it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.
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Oubliette
Cofty: It would be really helpful if those who say other's beliefs should be "respected" would define in practical terms exactly what they mean by "respect".
This is why I posted a definition of respect on the previous page.
It does not seem to be an appropriate word to use for beliefs in general let alone any in particular.
I noticed that, at least so for, no one in the "Beliefs Must Be Respected" camp has responded to that post.
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372
On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post
by StarTrekAngel ini am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.
i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.
it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.
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Oubliette
Hi all, just perused the last few pages while on my lunch break.
I have to say, I'm curious to see how this thread has progressed. Several posters have really tried to elucidate the issue while the remaining ones seem entrenched in confusing the basic ideas involved.
People are not their beliefs!
It is possible to respect an individual and yet disagree with their beliefs, even to think those beliefs are wrong, possibly harmful.
It is also possible to not respect an individual but still share certain beliefs with them.
The two are not inseparably entwined.
Although it may vary from culture to culture, respect is general something someone earns due to their achievements, qualities or position. A certain amount of respect may even be granted to complete strangers; whether that level of respect increases or decreases depends on their continued actions and behaviors.
When we consider the meaning of the verb respect, I'm not sure it is even appropriate to use it in connection with any set of beliefs:
- admire (someone or something) deeply, as a result of their abilities, qualities, or achievements.
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Frankly, the meaning of the word belief is itself somewhat problematic:
Definition of BELIEF
- a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing
- something believed; especially : a tenet or body of tenets held by a group
- conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon especially when based on examination of evidence
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Depending on our own particular background, education, training and disposition, we may find that one of these definitions seems more right than another. Context does matter.
I'd like to end this post with a short excerpt from an interview with Bertrand Russell.
He was asked by the interviewer, "Do you think there’s a practical reason for having a religious belief, for many people?
Russell: Well, there can’t be a practical reason for believing what isn’t true. That’s quite... at least, I rule it out as impossible. Either the thing is true, or it isn’t. If it is true, you should believe it, and if it isn’t, you shouldn’t. And if you can’t find out whether it’s true or whether it isn’t, you should suspend judgment. But you can’t... it seems to me a fundamental dishonesty and a fundamental treachery to intellectual integrity to hold a belief because you think it’s useful, and not because you think it’s true. -
372
On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post
by StarTrekAngel ini am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.
i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.
it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.
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Oubliette
The rebel: the opposite of love is knowledge
It would be more accurate to say: the opposite of love is apathy.
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372
On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post
by StarTrekAngel ini am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.
i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.
it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.
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Oubliette
The thing that is wrong is when people clearly do it to retaliate against someone they don't like rather than the point of a post.
Agreed.
If you have never done that then well done.
I may have in the past in one of my less-than-finer moments. But I have not done it lately and certainly not on this thread.