LTPF, the scenario you describe is important because you draw attention to the difference between an individual ending a relationship for reasons known to them and institutionalized shunning. A very important distinction to make.
Oubliette
JoinedPosts by Oubliette
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We talk a lot about conditional friends on here
by cappytan inso, when people post about being shunned by their friends, i've heard several posters say things like, "their friendship is conditional.
real friendships aren't conditional.".
i'm sorry, but that just isn't really true.. if you and i were friends, there are conditions.
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On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post
by StarTrekAngel ini am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.
i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.
it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.
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Oubliette
Xanthippe: When they join a thread on here sometimes they've just left or are trying to leave a cult that has twisted their mind in knots since babyhood.
This is a very important observation and a good reminder to keep in mind.
And while it might explain such behavior, it certainly does not justify it.
So with this in mind, what strategies can we use to "talk them down off the ledge" of their cult-indoctrination and the consequences of waking up and realizing they've been duped, (a process most, if not all, of us here had to go through).
For me, I appreciated when other senior posters were calm and discussed only the issues, never making the discussion personal. Some of them, for example Cofty, were quite brutal with their directness in forcing me to confront the inconsistencies in my beliefs. And yet because it was always only about the beliefs and never directed at me as a person I was able to work through it.
Some people just can't seem to make that intellectual and emotional separation, even though they are waking up or have woken up to the fact that they are in a cult.
On the other hand, there are some long-time posters here for which the above explanation doesn't hold. They've been out long enough to have worked through those issues and haven't or won't. They seem to come here just to pick a fight. But we can't do anything about that, can we?
You can't win 'em all!
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We talk a lot about conditional friends on here
by cappytan inso, when people post about being shunned by their friends, i've heard several posters say things like, "their friendship is conditional.
real friendships aren't conditional.".
i'm sorry, but that just isn't really true.. if you and i were friends, there are conditions.
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Oubliette
Cappy, as always you bring up some really good points.
I agree that relationships are conditional. They just are.
You didn't make the distinction though between the terms "unconditional friendship" and "unconditional love."
Not intending to derail the thread, just add to it, but those are not the same thing.
A parent could, for example, love a wayward child and even end the relationship but still have love for the child.
Clearly such a thing is unlikely to exist between friends of any kind.
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On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post
by StarTrekAngel ini am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.
i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.
it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.
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Oubliette
That's calling it like it is Cofty. But that is what happens here, quite often as you clearly know. -
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Invisible Rulership - one of the dumbest things I ever believed in
by Black Man inhaving now been out of the cult for a few years, it really shocks me about some of the nonsense i used to believe in.
like for instance, christ ruling in the midst of his enemies, but doing so invisibly.. let's let that one sink in for a minute.
you've supposedly got a king who is ruling for a kingdom, but it is an invisible rule.
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Oubliette
It's just a religious twist on the invisible clothes on the very visible ruler:
The emperor is naked, ... and he's fat and ugly too!
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On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post
by StarTrekAngel ini am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.
i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.
it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.
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Oubliette
Xanthippe: I think it's because a person's identity, their belief about the purpose of life and their view on life after death are usually tied up with their religion.
Good point.
So because they take it personally, they respond that way even though the instigating comments were directed at beliefs, beliefs which the person making the original comments might not even know the other person holds.
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On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post
by StarTrekAngel ini am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.
i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.
it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.
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Oubliette
In a deliberate attempt to redirect this thread back to the OP, it seems that many here feel that you can't disagree without it becoming a personal issue to them. Although they will deny it, their responses indicate otherwise.
I have enjoyed many excellent discussions on this forum where people are free to express their differing viewpoints with respect and are respected in return. I have also experienced the exact opposite.
With the intention of getting the discussion back on track, I have these two questions:
Why do you think this is?
What is the best way to address the situation?
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On respect for the belief of others. Sorry for the long post
by StarTrekAngel ini am inclined to start this thread in response to some comments made in other threads.
i have been coming around these forum for quite some time now so whatever you find in here is not just related to something someone may have said this week.
it can go months back as well.. i have seen many who claim to respect the belief of others but when it comes down to applying it into practice, things take a whole different tune.
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Oubliette
OC: people who have invested their time and life into a profession deserve respect, not ridicule.
Thank you!
I think this latest exchange illustrates why the GB doesn't want any of their sheeple to get an education. They don't have any and they don't want their "followers" to know more than they do.
Did you happen to see the latest Pew Research Center's Religious Landscape Study? It contains some very informative results concerning JWs. In reference to education, only 95 of JWs complete college and only 3% get graduate degrees. The WTBTS's policy against Higher Education has resulted in a religion with the most ignorant membership in the country, no doubt the world.
JWs ranked lowest in relying on common sense among the 12 groups reported. They were also among the lowest in using science and reason.
Very disturbing indeed.
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It's official - JWs have least common sense of any religious group in US
by slimboyfat insome fascinating results in the latest pew research.
(how did i miss this before?
) including that jws rely on their religion the most of any group to tell right from wrong and rely on common sense the least.
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Oubliette
Also the lowest, or very near it, in science & reason. -
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Oubliette
LisaRose: I sometimes wonder if Rubber Face is personally responsible for waking up more people than JWN.
He had more to do with me leaving this religion than any other single individual.
I would see/listen to him give talks at conventions and just couldn't believe that any God would chose this moron as a leader in His religion.
Ultimately, this idiot's behavior was instrumental in me taking a much closer look at other aspects of the religion which had been bothering me. (Can you say, "Nagging doubts?")
The rest is, as they say: History!
Let's review: It's a cult!