I am intregued now.... what were the revisions they handed out, were they reprinted editions or did they include a suppliment, does anyone have a copy or detail as to what thie was?
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Posts by AlanB
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26Revelation Book
by oscar inwhat does everybody think of the revelation book it is the red one,i am breezing thru it at the moment i can't believe how deep it is and thier explanation for each scripture.
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should crisis of conscience be on the net?
by sleepy ingot to be honest an say i'm supprissed cofc is not on the net in some offical form.
any good reason why its not there?
lets think, if i was a executive in a pharmaceutical company that gave out drug that were harmful, i then realised the drugs were bad, but the rest of the exectives didn't want to know and chucked you out,you lost your money and pension but you had the infomation to help people who had taken the bad drugs , would you, .
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AlanB
I do not know what all the fuss is about.
Ray Franz wrote a book, which was published and he as the author I assume gets paid royalties for it, I assume the printers, distributers and publishers get their share. That is how the book publishing business works.
I cannot remember how much my copy cost, I remember that at the time I felt it was in line with other books that I would buy, I was happy to pay for the information contained.
That is how the book buying public work.
Perhaps as ex JW's who have previously been forbidden to buy books outside the organisation we are so used to contributing to 'cover the cost of printing' and conditioned that no one should profit from it (!) that the concept of paying a fair market price for a book is an alien concept. The book must have taken considerable work to produce.
If I wrote a book, I would have no problem in charging for it.
Perhaps J K Rowling should have given her books out free to the children of the world instead of profiting from encouraging children to read with her stories.
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Revelation Book
by oscar inwhat does everybody think of the revelation book it is the red one,i am breezing thru it at the moment i can't believe how deep it is and thier explanation for each scripture.
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AlanB
EVERYTHING is about the society. Revisions were handed out as we were studying it for the 3rd time.
Technically we have books in the literature room ready to give out, but without the revisions?
WHAT!!! have they revised the Revelation book..... are they studying it again at the book study?
Tell me more....
The Revelation book was the only society book I truely studied properly, colour coded highlighter pens the works. I was recently baptised and keen at the time.
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AlanB
Now here is an interesting story.
There was one Brother, Brother Normal, in our congregation, he had a large family and at the time was around early 40's. The family had been in the congregation for some time and were part of the mainstay, he was also an elder. He was a nice Brother, so was the whole family.
Then sometime around the late 70's he starts to partake at the memorial.
Now my view as a 13 year old was that he had obviously been given some divine sign and that this was a personal thing. I had always been told that the 'Anointed' 'knew' and that it was a feeling that no one who had not experienced it could understand. I was surprised as I thought that the 144K had all been chosen, however my Mother explained that some fell away and had to be replaced. So as a child I felt a cirtain amount of awe for this Brother, who was actually quite down to earth and normal.
However,
The strange thing is that this brother becoming one of the anointed caused quite a polarized opinion in the congregation. Shortly afterwards, Brother Normal stood down as an elder and carried on as a R&F publisher, then pioneered for a while.
Brother Autocrat, who had previously been in sole control of the congregation before the body of elder arrangement and still ruled with an iron fist, did not take the annointment of Bro Normal too well. I remember working on the Ministry with Brother Autocrats son, a recently apointed elder (both sons were being groomed) I mentioned the annointment and his comment shocked me. He said, "we dont think that he is really annointed at all", I felt quite indignant about this, even at 13 what I felt was along the lines of, "What right does Brother Autocrat and his sons have to judge whether Bro Normal is anointed or not! Especially when its a feeling that no on else would know."
I suspect there was a jealosy thing going on, why had Brother Autocrat been anointed.
So the situation arose where, Brother Autocrat and his clique of groomed elders looked upon Brother Normal with some suspicion.
At the same time there were many in the congregation who held Brother Normal with a great deal of respect, especially as Brother Normal, was just that, Normal, quite humble, a nice bloke, nice family and would give quite well thought out and interesting comments (nothing remotely apostate you understand) and took a moderate and reasonable position on most things. His family had a few minor problems yet grew up into nice well adjusted people.
So there was a clear power battle between the hard line elders run by Brother Autocrat and the more moderate popularist views of Brother Normal.
I lost a lot of respect for the elders due to this as this is not how I would have thought someone of the anointed should have behaved at all.
Another Story.
I was quite young when this happenned. There was an elderly Polish Brother who took the emblems. He had been in concentration camps during WWII. When he became Ill, the doctors prescribed a course of treatment for him that could have led to his recovery. He refused any treatement and the doctors came to the view that he wanted to die. He told the elders that he wanted to die so he would recieve his heavenly reward. This understandably upset his wife who he left behind. He did die a few weeks later.
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Hello...ex .jw. intro & background.
by Nigel inmy name is nigel.i am 50,married with five kids,early teens to late 20,s.i live in the bush in australia.i have cruised this site for a couple of months & feel comfortable enough to talk now.those of you who were long term jw,s will understand that.only my direct family know what i am about to tell.i have never told anyone else as they would not understand.i was born a jw in the u.k. and some of my first memories are of going door to door.i was scalded when i was 4 & i remember some brothers coming to see me.my parents emigrated when i was 13 as my dad didn,t get on with the inlaws.my dad drank a bit at home at home & was violent.it was never spoken about outside of the family and at 15 i left home.i was the eldest of four.i continued to go to meetings,lived on my own & learnt a trade.at 20 i married a good jw girl as was expected & became a regular pioneer.i was a good public speaker & as far as the congregation was concerned had a bright future.i believed in what i was doing as it was what i had been taught.when i was 22 we had a baby & was witnessing one sunday morning & was involved in a head on car accident in a 60mph zone.my wife & son were minor injured but i was lucky to survive.i had many bone fractures & head injuries & i did not know who i was,what had happened,nor recognize my wife or child for 3 months.i was in hospital for 6 months.i was unable to do anything for a year.by this time i was in financial difficulty & due to this & my mental state grabbed what i could get in court,which was not much.during this time no one helped...no one.i continued to go to the meetings but my heart was gone & the downhill slide had started.over the next 7 to 8 years i worked a normal job but started to drink & by mid 80s was not attending meetings.my wife was a good jw & did not understand my feelings.although i had much respect for her & still do,by this stage we had 3 kids,& there was a chasm between us.i knew that i was affecting my wife but she would never divorce me.so i figured the best way was to give them all the reason not to want me around.i was called to the meeting & i told the elders how i felt & that even i did not know why.disfellowshiped.fair enough.we divorced late 80s.she married an elder.i married a so say worldly person.about 3 or 4 years later my new wife & i had 2 kids & were getting along fine.i had started talking to dad but i did not want to go back to meetings.my dad was disfellowshiped for smoking & could not give it up.he became ill & very depressed.he overdosed on anti depressants.my mum knew what he had done & left him on the floor for 24 hours before calling an ambo.she rang me when he was dead.i don,t talk to her any more.she remains a jw.no comment.my sisters are jw,s.
nobody talks anymore but.three weeks after dad died my brother had a lot of problems,financial,legal & grief.he was only 29.he shot himself.i buried two in three weeks.and so began a new chapter in my life...violence.and baby wasn,t i good at it.i king hit everyone within arms length for a year.didn,t lose a fight,the anger was immense.did the maximum weekend detention,lost my job,my second wife took the kids & went.
understandable.i held a gun in my mouth so hard i bled for two days.but i couldn,t do it.i love my present wife & kids & i believed that jehovah would understand & forgive me when i die.i did my best with what i was given.from that day i never looked back.i fixed it up with my wife & we get on great.my three oldest kids to my 1st wife are jw,s but i see a bit of them.my wife now hasn,t much time for religion.understandable.she is a nurse.i don,t work any more.i still look outside & appreciate what god has done for us but i don,t need other people to feel that.too much damage done.i don,t slag the witnesses nor the wts.their business what they do.i just don,t agree with the procedure of df,s and the climate of fear & guilt.i have seen much & will contribute where i can.you seem like a decent bunch.good luck to you all.nigel
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AlanB
Hi Nigel,
What a story! I hope you find this board encouraging there are many of us who have been through differing experiences. I think you have the right attitude in not getting angry or bitter. Some of the information here has helped me realise that; the JW's are just another religion, I am not the only one, we can laugh at it at times, support those with problems that we may have shared and find our own understanding of god if we wish.
The more I read about the WTS, the more it washes away any guilt I may feel about leaving and the more I realise that there are many good people in the world and that I can be comfortable in it.
I wish you well.
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Bush Announces "Peace and Security" (non-political thread only please)
by Confucious inok, in bush's speech last night, his theme was "peace and security" or "peace and saftey" which i believe was his actual words.
well, we know the jw retoric about "peace and security.
does anyone here have insite on what the the bible is talking about with "...when they are announceing peace and security that sudden destruction will be instantly upon them..." .
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AlanB
Yea, I remember in the Mid 80's the UN (Scarlet Colour Wild Beast ? [Patent Pending]) declared it the international year of peace. Coupled with the fact that 'This Generation?' was still only 72 years old, it had some significance at the time.
I guess its getting close to election time and all the Rhetoric is coming out. Bush talking about peace and Blair is now talking about Green issues.
Sorry must keep it non political.
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Convention Drama creeps out JWs?
by ezekiel3 ini am getting news from jws who have attended the district convention that the drama (which is pre-recorded and played to lip-syncing actors) has a demon-possessed woman with a ?demonic voice?.
can anyone confirm this?
it is said to be pretty creepy sound effect and many jws are uncomfortable when they hear it.
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AlanB
Just played the MP3 from the Drama.... Made me laugh anyway.
My two boys told me about the Drama, they throught the sound effects were corny.
I used to like the Drama's in the 70's we used to go to Twickenham and the Drama's were the highlight as a child. I remember the one about the Israelites coming out of Egypt, and the one about Lot.
By about the 80-90's the Drama's had got a bit stale, too much of families sitting around on the platform discussing the moral point and not enough Jezebel being thrown out of the window in my opinion.
Somthing else I had a good laugh about with my boys the other weekend was the American names used in the Drama's. Now Randy, I hope you dont take this the wrong way. In English (British English) Randy is not a name, its an adverb which means "To have an erection". So imagine my delight as a 13 year old boy with a purile sense of humour when the key character in the Drama is called 'Randy' and the words booming across the stadium refer to "Brother Randy". Of course I had to keep a straight face as I was with my parents . Looking round the stadium I noticed not one smirk from all the adults, and darent look at any of my peers, it was like the scene from Life of Brian.
The best bit was that, Brother Randy had become tempted by a girl in his local high school, which was the moral bit, so from my point of view what Brother Randy needed was not council regarding Potiphers wife, what he really needed was a good dose of Bromide.
I did wonder why, no one from the London Bethel pointed this out to Brooklyn, not one English elder thought it worth a mention. We could have had an English version, a Brother Dick..... Erm No!.... perhaps a Brother John Thomas..... erm perhaps not, Brother Bone, How about a Brother Richard Head...... the possibilities are endless.
Sorry getting more Pythonesque by the minute.....
Must stop sniggering and get back to work.
Thanks for cheering me up with the MP3.
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Anyone from uk?
by villastu inhi i'm new to this forum just interested to know how many brits are on this forum, as im from birmingham england myself, please say hi especially if your from the birmingham area.
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AlanB
I have been to Villa Park several times but only on a couple of occasions did I see a ball kicked there.
Yes, thats the Villa !!
I am not from Birmingham but am only 45 Mins away.
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Quotes website can "confuse newly interested": so says my Elder/Father
by Quotes inhi gang, .
i went to visit my parents last weekend, taking my lovely wife and her mother (who is visiting us from overseas and happens to be a sincere devout catholic and a wonderful person, and speaks almost no english).
recently my mother mentioned (via telephone) that she wished my father would buy a new computer (theirs is a vintage 1987 ibm ps/2 25 mhz) so at the last minute i decided to give them one of the old ones i have sitting around, complete with 17" monitor -- a kind of "peace offering".
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AlanB
The whole conversation is very similar to those I have with my father, total blinkered approach and failure to see the facts.
I remember outlining the UN issue to him, his response was,
"Its all apostate lies"
"No, actually all this information can be verified from secular sources, The Guardian newspaper, the UN website, etc.
"Well apostates must have got into the UN and Guardian computers and put the information there.... "
You cannot reason with people like this.
Great website by the way, I have book marked it and I am sure it will be a valuable resource.
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Ever met high ranking JW and felt uneasy
by AlanB inthis came up in another topic and feel it needs a topic of its own.
does anyone else have experiences of meeting (cant use the word 'brothers')men from high up in the borg and felt uneasy about it.. alanb wrote.
i was at twickenham many years ago (about 20) and went to the admin area to get info about serving where the need was great (great plan that turned out to be) anyway there were two elderly yet autstere brothers standing at the steps to the main office area looking as though they owned the place, they had a real air of seniority and importance about them, i have no idea who they were, yet sense they were senior one was english the other american.. .
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AlanB
This came up in another topic and feel it needs a topic of its own. Does anyone else have experiences of meeting (cant use the word 'Brothers')men from high up in the borg and felt uneasy about it.
AlanB wrote
I was at Twickenham many years ago (about 20) and went to the admin area to get info about serving where the need was great (great plan that turned out to be) anyway there were two elderly yet autstere brothers standing at the steps to the main office area looking as though they owned the place, they had a real air of seniority and importance about them, I have no idea who they were, yet sense they were senior one was English the other American..
As I approached them expecting the sort of warm brotherly welcome you believed you would get from all JW's, I was treated in a very off hand manner. I was left with a very bad feeling, I cannot explain it, it was more than how I was treated there was a very cold negative vibe coming from them.
Never forgot that and never experienced such a feeling again and I have been in many different situations in many countries and cultures.
Outoftheborg wrote
HI ALAN B.
I AM GLAD YOU BROUGHT THIS UP.
I HAD TWO EXPERIENCES LIKE THAT. BOTH INVOLVED MEN FROM THE HIGHER ECHELONS OF THE SOCIETY.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT RANKING THEY HELD.
IT HAPPENED AT TWO DIFFERENT ASSEMBLIES.
THEY LOOKED AT ME AND I HAD THE IMMEDIATE FEELING THAT THEY LOOKED DOWN ON ME LIKE I WAS A PIECE OF DIRT.
LIKE I WAS WORTHLESS AND OUGHT NOT BE THIS CLOSE TO THEM.
THE FEELING WAS DEEP IN MY GUT AND I FELT WHAT I THINK WAS EVIL.
THIS WAS YEARS AGO AND SOMETHING I WILL NEVER FORGET.Outoftheorg
<< Exactly how I felt, A>>
Namewitheld wrote That's very weird, I too had a very similar experiance when I met Sydlik in Bethel. It was a hard to describe feeling of something deeply *strange* (very hard to describe) about this man. At the time I thought it was me, but looking back I wonder sometimes.