Posts by WingCommander

15

Confusing details in "What Does the Bible Really Teach?"

by WingCommander in

jw
friends

i've gotten through this entire booklet and have post-it notes on nearly every page.

i know this is a "study brochure" for newly interested persons, but the sugar-coating and glossing over of history, facts, and some of the outright lies i've discovered in it are astounding.

here is a "for instance": .

WingCommander

I've gotten through this entire booklet and have post-it notes on nearly every page. I know this is a "study brochure" for newly interested persons, but the sugar-coating and glossing over of history, facts, and some of the outright lies I've discovered in it are astounding.

Here is a "for instance":

On pages 214-215, it talks about the resurrection and how people will be judged. Reading this makes it seem very "Seventh Day Adventist", because they basically state that DEATH has paid for our sins, and that everyone will be resurrected, allowed time to change and follow God's laws, and THEN be judged by Jesus, as the 1,000 years are really "Judgement Day." This is completely astounding to me, as I, being brought up a JW, was NEVER taught this way. It was grilled into us that ONLY JW's would be resurrected, and of course those in the past who did not have the opportunity to hear Jesus' message. No other Christians would be resurrected, especially Pagan Christians like Catholics, etc...only people like Martin Luther and Calvin who were given "New Light" during their time. Yes, people who died before ever hearing of Jesus, etc would have to live accordingly during the 1,000 year reign, but these paragraphs give the impression that ALL people who died are now free of sin and have yet ANOTHER chance at following YHWH's laws. To be honest, this certainly sounds like something a merciful God would do, instead of just condemning everyone to Gehanna because Satan tricked them. But again, this is NOT how things were presented to me growing up.

I have to say again this is an incredible concept for me. I mean, if death pays for our sins (remember in the Bible it says somewhere that the wages that sin pays is death) and Jesus died for our salvation (eerrr....the 144,000, sorry) then wouldn't EVERYONE over that span of 1,000 years be resurrected, given the chance to worship correctly, and then be judged according to their deeds during that 1,000 years?? That is another thing....these pages DIRECTLY state that our deeds that we did BEFORE we die don't count, that it is our deeds DURING that 1,000 years that we are to be judged on. Again, this contradictory to what I was taught.

I really have a hard time wrapping my mind around what I was taught for half my life, and now these concepts found on these pages. It does however match up with the current flip-flop of the sheep and goats NOT be seperated by the door-to-door ministry (as was held for years and years), and now the seperating is to be done by Jesus after Armaggedon.

What say all of you? Is this a flash of "New Light", or merely sugar-coating what they really believe??? Also, Armaggedon had better hurry up and get here, as we are nearly 100 years into Jesus' 1,000 year reign, and I imagine there's alot to be done afterwards?

- Wing Commander

11

Where does WT says Jesus is not a mediator for other sheep...

by Albert Einstein in

jw
friends

we opened a discussion with my wife today at brakfast about jesus being a mediator for anointed only according wt, and not for the other sheep, ... she said "no way, never heard about that..." we decided to discuss it more detailed in the evening.... i know some quotes, but do you have some as well???....

saying fds is a mediator for the other sheep instead of jesus..... .

albert.

WingCommander

Are you serious? Your wife must not be paying attention during The Memorial, because they go over this every year. How many times have we heard, ".....We can only gain salvation by being ASSOCIATED with Jehovah God's visable organization today on earth, namely, the FaithFul & Discreet Slave."

See the articles mentioned above and I'm also sure you'll have more by day's end on this subject. And when you show your wife this mountain of evidence, tell her not to feel bad, most JW's don't know about this little bait & switch either. My late mother, a JW for almost 25 years, never knew this until she discovered it, then told me about. It shock her to the core and opened her mind. She actually bought COC and ISOCF and leant them to me!!!!

- Wing Commander

7

What have the JWs witnessed?

by LouBelle in

jw
friends

a witness is a person present at an event and able to give information regarding that event.

my question is: what event have the jws witnessed that classifys them as witnesses of jah?.

have the jws actually witnessed anything?.

WingCommander

Well, I can tell you what I've witnessed in my almost 30 years of life:

1.) WT allows organ transplants.

2.) WT disallows large gatherings, parties, congregation picnics, etc. The joy starts to decline to nothingness from there.

3.) WT allows blood fractions.

4.) At 5 years old, I witnessed a series of WatchTowers and Awakes! dealing with the topics of prophecy, generations, 1914. (See 1984 Bound Volume)

5.) I saw the Berlin wall come down.

6.) I saw the end of the Cold War, which completely threw the WT's guess of the King of North/South into disrepair.

7.) I saw the long-held understanding of the generation of 1914 fly out the window in 1995. Hardly anyone noticed. Millions who were living in 1914 are now DEAD.....

8.) In 1997, I graduated high school, which my parents and the WT promised would never happen when I entered school back in 1984. What the hell was I supposed to do now?

9.) I saw the end of the millenium, something no one was supposed to see this side of Armaggedon.

10.) I saw 9/11.

11.) I saw my entire JW family die in the span of 8 years, leaving me to pick up the broken pieces of my confused, sad, heartbroken mind. Why does YHWH allow all of this to continue on?

12.) I saw most everyone I grew up with as a JW (that are my age) leave their JW upbringing behind and go out into the real world. Only a very select few of the braindead, brainwashed, lower IQ ones whom were raised by tyrant Elder fathers and/or pioneer mothers stay in. They are like zombies now with no individuality or personalities of their own. I'm totally serious on this one.....it's down right scary.

13.) I saw the end of the "Book Study" something that when I was growing up was talked about as the only important meeting and quite possibly the only one we could attend during the Great Tribulation. They even practiced with special passwords in the 70's. I remember my now late parents talking about it. Unbelievable.

14.) I see the iron-fisted, rigid, heartless way in which the WT taps around the blood issue and also the handling of just about any questions now. The policy when confronted with anything is to ask, "Do you believe the F&DS is God's sole channel of truth to mankind on earth?" If you dance around this, you're disfellowshipped, end of story. So much for being flexible, huh? Can you feel the Christ-like love oozing from this religion?

This has been a summary. I could go on and on. The JW's talk of progressive light, and now the new catch phrase is "refinement". Yeah, I have to say that in my short time on this earth, the religion that I grew up with has now been "refined" into something I barely recognize from when I was a child. The promises that were made to my family and I have not been fulfilled as the WT promised. It's always the same with them...."The End is soooo close.....just a little while longer.....attend all the meetings and go out in the Field Ministry more, don't question the food from the Faithfull and Discreet Slave....more, more, more......over, and over, and over again.

My question to any of you reading this is: If you are eating food at a table in the dark, how are you to tell if it has become spiritually rotten? No one asks that question because they aren't allowed to.

- Wing Commander

24

Furniture/carpet/colors - What is wrong with people who lived in the 1970's?

by Witness 007 in

just finished watching "the shinning" 1970's horror movie set in an expensive resort....the carpet!....the curtains, the furniture yuck!

orange and lime green carpets and bathrooms were never attractive!!!

i was born in 1972 so anyone alive at the time please explain your bad taste!

WingCommander

I hear ya.....those colour schemes were absolutely attrocious!

Has anyone here been the Grantville, PA Assembly Hall? Man, that place in the 1970's-1980's was pure hell! The orange/green/red swirly pattern carpet is forever burned into my mind! The seats were also orange to match!! Uggh, it was horrible, and the new redesign they did isn't all that better, but still hurts my eyes to a degree.

Sigh...I remember when they actually served FOOD there! I actually kind of miss that....the smells as lunchtime approached!

Messed up!!

- Wing Commander

9

Going to church

by crapola in

jw
friends

how did you feel when you went to church for the first time?

was it so very different from the witneses and did you feel guilty?.

i'm considering going for the first time with my daughter but am worried about what to expect..

WingCommander

Hello! Well, this is an interesting topic, and one that is close to me as well. I have been attending an Advent Lutheran church about 5 times a year for the last 2 years. Each time, it gets a bit easier I admit. I actually attended the Easter service today. Guess what? No mention of bunnies, spring, flowers, chocolate, etc. It was ENTIRELY about Jesus, his sacrifice, the fact He has risen, the hope for mankind, etc. Nothing pagan was mentioned or seen AT ALL. Surprising, huh? Being raised a JW I thought the Easter Bunny was front and center and gave the sermon!!

The first few times, I sweated bullets, not for being found out, but because I thought God would strike me down. It is a world of differance, let me tell you. Everyone is so personable to me, and the smiles and dress are not "for show". Anyone can dress the way they want...no more stuffy suits for me! I wear Chinos, dress shoes, Ralph Lauren shirt and blue RL blazer. No tie. I wore my JW suits at first, but it was just to creepy sitting in a new church in my old JW clothes. There are all kinds of people and all kinds of dress, and no one is judgemental. Imagine walking into a KH dressed all casual? Does YHWH God or Jesus even care?? I hardly think so. Should you dress like a bum? No, but you don't have to dress like the Oscars either like at the Memorial - a rediculous, showy display of materalism if I ever saw one!

The services I have attended also are filled with something new and genuine that I have never experienced as well - singing praises and actually worshipping God and the One whom He sent forth - Jesus! It is incredible, live music played on instruments, REAL, heartfelt music - no canned monotonous drivel sung by drone worker bees. That always gets me. Of course, there is some reading and answering of the Paster, as it is a Lutheran service (Catholic light if you will) but I have to say it keeps me from getting bored, tired, and also keeps my interest. Too bad JW's aren't as interesting, huh?

Know what else is amazing? I have two neices, 14 & 18, and they are so involved with the church (by their OWN choice) that it is unbelievable. Imagine, children actually WANTING to go to bible summer camp, do bible-based activities, charity work, choir, etc?? I remember growing up as a JW to be nothing but forced repetitive mandatory attendance and guilt-inducing rules and boredom. I am constantly amazed at the youth involvement at my in-laws Advent Lutheran church; talk about REAL "fruitages of the spirit"!!!

They have classes and support groups for the abused, AA meetings, marriage counseling, and on and on. Gee, where is the JW's help? In the form of a guilt trip or Judicial Committee, that's where!! They have introductory classes for those whom are interested; and all are free to ask questions. I am seriously considering starting these next week, if even to learn more about their beliefs.

In closing, I have really nothing negative to say; I am constantly amazed at all of the positive I see and hear, and how much it contrasts to the negative I heard spewn from the platform of the KH environment I grew up in. No wonder so many JW's (including my late parents) suffered from depression and a myriad of other mental health problems - constant negative reinforcement. It is mind-wrenching to live as a JW. Do they have good intentions? Probably, yes; they feel they have a monopoly on the Truth, and most know nothing else.

I hope I have helped. Best Regards,

- Wing Commander

21

As a JW youth, were you rejected by your peers and left out of social activities?

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

i'd be interested to know your experiences if this applies to you.. i was in touch with an old friend and we got to talking about why it is that jws don't reach out to their inactive friends.. this friend commented that "the reason why no one has reached out to you is because most jws are required to display friendship, not because they like you but because they are told to.".

in my old congregation, there were many "young ones"; dubs between the ages of 15 and 29. a couple of them showed interest in me but it never lasted, usually because others in the congregation would, in so many words, tell them i was bad association.. i did not fit in with the congregation i grew up in - and my peers let me know that.

they ignored me as often as they could at the kingdom hall.

WingCommander

TruthSeeker:

That was a great post; I myself could have written it. You summed up alot of feelings that I myself have felt an observed. At least you got to 1 or 2 parties and were invited to an annual BBQ, my family and I were NEVER invited to ANYTHING, EVER!!! I would always here about the Congregation picnics or outings after the fact, and feel absolutely horrible that no one had ever invited me or my family. Summers would be filled with canoe trips, camping, hiking, informal sports, but I was NEVER invited to anything. I have no clue as to why. I honestly think I wasn't "bad" enough for most. I dressed nice, studied, but wasn't all gung-ho. I had really only 1 friend in a Kingdom Hall, and he was a recent worldly convert with his mother. He was the most "normal" non-fake person so we became quick friends. I don't know if he's still a Dub or not, or even if he's baptized. I remember once about 1993-1994 when we had changed congregations. There were a few guys in their early 30's and they would go canoeing and camping, etc. They informally invited me in front of my mother one Saturday while we were out in Field Service. I was excited and could't wait! The next weekend came and I was waiting outside of my house for them to pick me up. They never did. My mother told me a few years later how enraged she was at the whole situation, and seeing me looking so pitiful when I came back in that day after not being picked up. What a bunch of Indian-Givers! No explanation or apology had been given to me later either. I was simply forgotten and then never asked again. I was 14. What a way to encourage the youth and reach out to a single sheep!!

I was a complete loner at the Kingdom Hall. None of the others my age would talk to me. I was not nerdy looking, I was actually handsome if I say so myself! At school, often times they were WORSE then the so-called "worldly" kids, and it absolutely disgusted me. Combine that with seeing them at the Kingdom Hall acting all pious and righteous and I could just about hurl. I pretty much up and faded when I got a life and career at age 17-18. No one from the KH cared. No one missed me. In the past 10 years my entire JW family has died, and they didn't so much as send a card to me, no one!

So what exactly am I to look back on and miss? "Brotherly Christian Love?" Non-existant to me and my family. I wish I could say I had been more socially active with this bunch of self-righteous hypocrites, because then maybe I'd miss something about them. But the truth is I don't, at least not anyone my own age. There were some older ones that were nice, but again it was conditional upon you filling a seat at the meeting. None of them have inquired about me or visited my house either. I've even been to the Kingdom Hall 2-3 times a year, and still no one seems to give a damn. It's like I am invisable. It really makes me wonder, "What is wrong with these people?" No wonder I never could muster up the motivation to get baptized. For what? To be officially ignored?

Speaking of ones my age, how many are still Witnesses?? Good question. I'd say 2 out of every 10 are still there. I am 29, so that's a huge chunck of loss for the WT. As far as I can see, they've created their own problems with anti-social isolationism and extremely controling behaviour. How many people want to stick around and be told how to dress, act, feel, think, wear a name badge, what to drive, whom to talk to, etc, etc? It's excruciatingly mind-numbing and exhausting.

- Wing Commander

4

Mystery woman (JW) found at Woodbridge mall identified after 14 years

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

very strange and sad story.. if she was an enthusiastic jw why did no one help her?.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2009/03/now_we_know_her_name_elba.html.

mystery woman found at woodbridge mall identifiedby susan k. livio/the star-ledger sunday march 22, 2009, 4:41 pmamanda brown/the star-ledger a woman who became a patient at hagedorn psychiatric hospital in glen gardner was found 14 years ago wandering the woodbridge center mall, unable to tell authorities anything about herself.

WingCommander

Guess her local body of Elders were too concerned about collecting field service slips to worry about going out and finding this lost sheep.

Shame on them! Jesus must be crying at this story.

- Wing Commander

3

our kingdom ministry april

by marcopolo in

jw
friends

an one month that i been riassociato, i don't go to preaching yet, the elderls not to give me kingdom ministry.

there is some site who i can unload april km??.

grazie.

WingCommander

I don't have one, but can I interest you in a copy of one of these fine publications?

1.) Crisis of Conscience

2.) In Search of Christian Freedom

3.) Awakening by Diana Wilson

These any many other publications can be found by enquiring here on this site. Oh yeah, feel free to ask other JW related questions you may have about their history and origins, how the Governing Body can rule you from the Tower in Brooklyn, how you are not allowed to partake of the emblems of Christ, etc.

Welcome!

Wing Commander

9

This jw is confused about fractions

by rebel8 in

jw
friends

http://en.allexperts.com/q/jehovah-s-witness-1617/2009/2/blood-3.htm.

she doesn't seem to understand her own religion's teachings on this topic.. she also contradicts herself a few times about the meaning of "allowed".... jehovah's witness - bloodexpert: brenda martin - 2/24/2009.

"jehovah's witnesses are allowed to receive blood fractions".

WingCommander

Where did you ask that question? Man, what a condescending asshole she is!!!

She has one thing right though, JW's are not "allowed" to take blood or fractions. You may choose take them, but then you are automatically considered to be disassociating yourself, and seen as DF'd to every JW you ever knew. Real nice loophole and technicallity, huh???

I would respond to her that Jesus wasn't "allowed" to break the Sabbath and heal the leper but He went ahead and did so anyway, as God respects mercy, NOT sacrifice. JW's completely miss this fact. Jesus "bent" the Law a bit in order to help someone, and YHWH didn't strike him dead on the spot for doing so, as it was a merciful, loving, kind act. Do you not think God was think the same of us, to save our lives or someone elses? This whole argument is so rediculous to me now; nothing more than straining a gnat and swallowing a camel.

It is so legalistc, etc. Guess what? JW's were forbidden before 1980 to have an organ transplant, now it's completely ok and NOT even a DA or DF offense. What the hell??

- Wing Commander

20

What is the general "mood" these days of Dubs at meetings and assemblies?

by Alpaca in

jw
friends

i haven't been inside a kingdom hall since 1998. back then, the change in the 1914 "generation" teaching was still sinking in and the "mood" then was one of confusion and head-scratching about what it all meant.. it is difficult for me to imagine how the "mood" now could be anything other than one of disappointment and doubt...even if it is not openly expressed.. do you think at some point there will be critical mass of doubts (and doubters) that will just start spilling out when dubs realize that others around them feel the same way?.

WingCommander

I wonder about this myself sometimes. I haven't been to any meeting in a year, and I only attend about 3-4 a year since 1998.

The general mood that I see is one of despair, and an overall "look" of exhaustion. These people have for the most part been run ragged. I know of other JW's that I graduated high school with and when I run into them at the mall or something they look nearly 40 and exhausted. Of course, having no education and no real career sure makes people have to work extra hard, plus all of the meetings, FS, etc. What a hamster wheel way to live!!

Your comments about the late 90's still ring true today I believe. That look of confusion or that they are somehow trying to figure things out is still there. Imagine.....going back in Dr. Brown's DeLorean time machine to the year 1984, and telling your younger self or family (I was only 5 at the time) that you were from the year 2009, and the New Order still had not come!! No one would be able to comprehend such a thing....time going on in this "System of Things" for another 25 years? It would be unfathonable, and if you had made such a prediction back then you would have been labeled an apostate since the generation of 1914 was really getting up in years!! This is why the bound volume for 1984 is so priceless to me. There are like 3 WT's right in a row dealing with the 1914 generation, prophecy, etc. This was all "truth", and now it is basically old bird liner. Every time I hear someone talk about New Light and prophecy, I just pick up that bound volume and ask, "what about this truth?" Guess it wasn't true, huh?

I couldn't imagine how it must be living as a JW right now. There really is no expectation of anything right now, except more labour at your janitorial job, and seemily endless field service. (if you are into that even) I have several JW families that live in my development. Their houses are the most unkept, hoggish, run down houses in the entire neighbourhood. They are socially retarded, completely isolated, and total recluses. I am 100% serious..... the only reason the Elder father and his family can even afford to live in our neighbourhood is because he works like a mad-man to provide. Community yardsale? Forget about it....their blinds are shut 24/7, 356 days a year. Strange is an understatement. They are actually palid from not getting enough sun......think Addams family here. Most of the other JW families are just a wack. They have children, and I pity them all, as I was raised in this religion.

- Wing Commander