herk

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Posts by herk

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  86

  "my Father is greater than I" and the Trinity

  by hooberus in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  "ye have heard how i said unto you, i go away, and come again unto you.

  if ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because i said, i go unto the father: for my father is greater than i.

  " john 14:28 .

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  herk
• 
  287

  All About The Trinity

  by UnDisfellowshipped in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  when jesus was about to die, he showed who his superior was by praying: "father, if you wish, remove this cup from me.

  the one god is eternal (has always existed and always will), immortal (his divine nature cannot die), omnipotent (all-powerful), omniscient (all-knowing), omnipresent (he is everywhere at the same time), god is the only one who can read human hearts and minds, god cannot sin and cannot lie, god does not change his morals or his nature.

  the trinity is not one person revealed three different ways (this is what "oneness pentecostals" believe).

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  herk
• 
  287

  All About The Trinity

  by UnDisfellowshipped in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  when jesus was about to die, he showed who his superior was by praying: "father, if you wish, remove this cup from me.

  the one god is eternal (has always existed and always will), immortal (his divine nature cannot die), omnipotent (all-powerful), omniscient (all-knowing), omnipresent (he is everywhere at the same time), god is the only one who can read human hearts and minds, god cannot sin and cannot lie, god does not change his morals or his nature.

  the trinity is not one person revealed three different ways (this is what "oneness pentecostals" believe).

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  2. 
  3. 
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  herk

  "Diagrams like this explain the Trinity very well."
• 
  287

  All About The Trinity

  by UnDisfellowshipped in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  when jesus was about to die, he showed who his superior was by praying: "father, if you wish, remove this cup from me.

  the one god is eternal (has always existed and always will), immortal (his divine nature cannot die), omnipotent (all-powerful), omniscient (all-knowing), omnipresent (he is everywhere at the same time), god is the only one who can read human hearts and minds, god cannot sin and cannot lie, god does not change his morals or his nature.

  the trinity is not one person revealed three different ways (this is what "oneness pentecostals" believe).

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  herk

  "Diagrams like this explain the Trinity very well."
• 
  86

  "my Father is greater than I" and the Trinity

  by hooberus in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  "ye have heard how i said unto you, i go away, and come again unto you.

  if ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because i said, i go unto the father: for my father is greater than i.

  " john 14:28 .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  herk
• 
  86

  "my Father is greater than I" and the Trinity

  by hooberus in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  "ye have heard how i said unto you, i go away, and come again unto you.

  if ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because i said, i go unto the father: for my father is greater than i.

  " john 14:28 .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  herk
• 
  86

  "my Father is greater than I" and the Trinity

  by hooberus in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  "ye have heard how i said unto you, i go away, and come again unto you.

  if ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because i said, i go unto the father: for my father is greater than i.

  " john 14:28 .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  herk
• 
  86

  "my Father is greater than I" and the Trinity

  by hooberus in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  "ye have heard how i said unto you, i go away, and come again unto you.

  if ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because i said, i go unto the father: for my father is greater than i.

  " john 14:28 .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  herk
• 
  86

  "my Father is greater than I" and the Trinity

  by hooberus in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  "ye have heard how i said unto you, i go away, and come again unto you.

  if ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because i said, i go unto the father: for my father is greater than i.

  " john 14:28 .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  herk

  hooberus,

  The Trinity teaches that Jesus and the Father are equal in terms of nature, but allows that the Father was greater by postion when Jesus became a servant.

  The Father is eternally greater by position:

  • Due to the master/servant relationship between sender and sent one, Jesus could not have been equal with the Father at the time he was sent. (John 13:16)
  • Jesus is forever "the Apostle and High Priest of our confession." He will always be the one who was sent forth by the Father as an Apostle. (Hebrews 3:1; 18:8)
  • The Father "is greater than all." (John 10:29) That includes Jesus, for only of the Father is it said that he is the "one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all." (Ephesians 4:6) Only "from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be the glory forever. Amen." (Romans 11:36)
  • The Father is eternally the God whom Jesus worships. (John 20:17; Revelation 3:2, 12) "My God" meant the same to Jesus as it did to Paul. (Romans 1:8; 1 Corinthians 1:4; 2 Corinthians 12:21; Philippians 1:3; 4:19; Philemon 4)
  • Though the Father entrusted Jesus with all authority in heaven and on earth, "it is evident that he is excepted who put all things in subjection to him." (Matthew 28:18; 1 Corinthians 15:27) The time will come when "the Son himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to him, so that God [the Father] may be all in all." (1 Corinthians 15:28)

  herk
• 
  86

  "my Father is greater than I" and the Trinity

  by hooberus in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  "ye have heard how i said unto you, i go away, and come again unto you.

  if ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because i said, i go unto the father: for my father is greater than i.

  " john 14:28 .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  herk

  hooberus,

  These verses can help us to understand the meaning of John 14:28 since the same word "greater" is used by the same author.

  Either you haven't bothered to examine the 230 NT occurrences of the Greek word translated "greater" in John 14:28 or you just don't care what those passages say. The word is translated in a variety of ways, and in most cases refers simply to sheer superiority and has nothing at all to do with position or rank.

  Some examples:

  • The miracles of John 1:50 are "greater" due to frequency and intensity, not because either the miracles or those performing them are greater in rank.
  • The greatness of Jesus compared to Jacob is not due to rank but ability as a miracle worker.
  • The "works" of John 5:20 are "greater" because they will be of greater moment and more numerous and widespread.
  • In John 5:36, the Father's "witness" in behalf of Jesus was "greater" because, though John bore testimony from God, he did not perform "works" such as Jesus performed. The One testifying to both John and Jesus was the same, so rank or position are out of the picture.
  • In John 6:18, the wind is "strong" because of its great intensity.
  • The "loud" voice of John 11:43 is one of greater volume.

  While "greater" in some cases has to do with rank, in a far greater number of occurrences it does not. Since it can be argued that the kurios of John 13:16 and 15:20 is "greater" due to his importance as a slave owner and not due to his rank in the community, I still say your case is very weak.

  More helpful than those two verses is John 10:29. Compare:

  • John 10:29 - "My Father is greater than all."
  • John 14:28 - "My Father is greater than I."

  In neither case is Jesus referring to rank within a Trinity. The Father is greater than everyone and everything, not simply because of his rank, but because of his preeminence in all things.

  herk