.... i've never found out why.
i've always wondered why, but never got around to asking anyone, so now i'm asking!
lol
minimus,
The Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses has an original photo of the apostles, Paul & Peter.
Don't you tremble at revealing such confidential information? Don't you realize that at any moment you could be struck dead by lighting for bringing this out in public? I fear for you. You've really done it now! Isn't anything sacred anymore???
herk
i really wanna know.
i need the most accurate version to refer to in order to continue a project i'm working on.
frannie b
Charles Taze Russell and Judge Rutherford had no problem in autographing their works, but I guess "creature worship" got to be too much.
Ve-l-l-y, ve-l-l-y interesteeng! So, in 1919, after coming to the temple for judgment, God and Christ decided to classify the WT Society as the only true religion, even though they were worshipping creatures! That is obviously what the Society is inadvertently saying when they claim that they don't now identify their writers and translators since it would generate "creature worship." If identifying the writers would induce "creature worship" now, there is no reason to suppose that it did not encourage it back then.
herk
i really wanna know.
i need the most accurate version to refer to in order to continue a project i'm working on.
frannie b
simwitness,
You make some valid points. There is absolutely no basis for inserting "Jehovah" anywhere in the New Testament. It's even questionable that it should appear so often in the Old Testament. It appears that Jesus did not use the name in public, even when reading from the Scriptures in the synagogue. (Luke 4:17-20) For centuries the Jews had not been saying the name, probably because the correct pronunciation had been lost and due to their fear of taking it in vain. Jesus seems to have respected the custom. In view of the Jewish sensitivity to its use at that time, he surely would have been criticized or even stoned if he had mentioned it. When he said he had made known his Father's name, he was not saying "I taught the Jews your name and how to pronounce it." (John 17:26) He obviously meant that he had informed the people of God's true character and qualities.
So, I appreciate your observations. I think the NWT has some good renderings in many places, but it also has some serious flaws that would certainly hinder me from recommending it for serious Bible study. I knew the "translators" personally, and I'm certain that every member of the NWT Committee was very poorly qualified for Bible translation. In those places where their renderings are IMO better than average, I credit those translations that were used as a model and guide by the Committee.
herk
i really wanna know.
i need the most accurate version to refer to in order to continue a project i'm working on.
frannie b
Gozz,
What exactly do you mean by "evidence"? Are you looking for a signed statement by the NWT Committee stating "We did the translating"? Ray Franz was a friend of each member of the committee, and one member was his uncle. Having firsthand knowledge of what went on at WT headquarters, Bill Cetnar several years ago also published the names. I was there, and I also knew the translators. What evidence are you looking for beyond what we saw with our own eyes and heard with our ears over a period of several years?
herk
i really wanna know.
i need the most accurate version to refer to in order to continue a project i'm working on.
frannie b
pc,
I don't feel that the NWT has it right at John 1:1. But, in fairness, I believe most translations are wrong there. There are several translations that agree with the NWT and say "a god." There are about 30 of them, if I remember correctly from a list I saw. Though most of them have never enjoyed the popularity of more common translations, some were produced by trinitarians who believed that using the term "God" with a capital "G" is simply not the best way to render the verse. Doubtless this is why An American Translation and Moffatt's and Schonfield's translations say "the word was divine." It is also probably the reason that all English translations before the KJV, with the exception of the Douay-Rheims Version, said "it" instead of "he" or "him" in verses 2 to 5.
I've read several articles over the years that claim it is almost impossible to convey in English what this verse meant to first century readers of Greek.
I'm not a JW anymore, and I'd be among the last to defend all that they teach. But I'm not convinced that John 1:1 teaches the Trinity. The Gospel of John for the most part is quite plain and easy to read. I believe that if John's intention was to teach the Trinity in that verse, he would have plainly said "In the beginning Jesus existed, and Jesus was with God, and Jesus was God." His words are far from being as clear as that with respect to the teaching of the Trinity.
herk
i recall praying countless of times about very specific things, "worked in harmony with my prayers" and nothing.
anything that remotely seemed like an answer was either coincidence or my own determination to get it done.. so, how about you?
did jehovah answer your prayers or were you like me, did you feel very frustrated and guilty because they were never answered?
Removed by poster using wrong computer.
i really wanna know.
i need the most accurate version to refer to in order to continue a project i'm working on.
frannie b
Earnest,
However, they may have commissioned others to do the translation work itself.
I really don't think so.
My family and congregation were located near one of the Society's farms when the NWT idea was conceived by Knorr and F Franz. We often entertained some of the directors and other old timers (Riemer, Woodworth, Sullivan, etc.) at Brooklyn who visited us for a weekend of rest as well as for backyard Bible meetings. Sometimes I picked them up at Bethel and brought them to the farm or to our home. I became convinced from conversations with them that this project was accomplished entirely by "anointed" men at Brooklyn. However, they also mentioned that New York City offered the finest facilities and sources in the world for translating the Bible due to the existence of New York Public Library and the large libraries at City, Columbia, Fordham, and Yeshiva. I heard that a few select members of the Writing Dept. and President's Office assisted the translators by doing their footwork, going to the libraries to borrow books that the translators would consult. I also gathered from those conversations that the Society had become aware of a small number of excellent translations, and these served to some extent as a guide or pattern for the work of the NWT Committee.
While I know for a fact that "scholar" is way off the mark with his absurd remarks, I agree that the NWT is in many respects a superior Bible translation.
herk
i really wanna know.
i need the most accurate version to refer to in order to continue a project i'm working on.
frannie b
Above, searcher made the following interesting and almost prophetic observation. The highlighting with red type is mine:
Scholor wouldnt believe it even then, remember, a famous tactic of the WT is to cry "apostate forgery" when presented with documentation (even their own).
Now note what "scholar" wrote in his very next post. Again, the highlighting is mine:
You cowardly refrain from giving a reliable or trustworthy source for the identification of the NWT committee but simply you hide behind the skirt of an apostate and have been deceived by his satanic mischief.
Being a diehard JW, "scholar" is so predictable. Those under the spell of the WT Society can be depended upon to always repeat the party line since they have absolutely no idea how to think for themselves.
herk
i really wanna know.
i need the most accurate version to refer to in order to continue a project i'm working on.
frannie b
"scholar" (so-called):
Apparently you can't think beyond the same ridiculous claim you make repeatedly. As I stated earlier:
Your pathetic efforts at deception are exposed by your poor spelling, poor grammar, poor definitions and especially your poor reasoning ability.
Apparently you're a poor learner in adult life because you were too obstinate and contrary to accept good teaching in school. As a consequence, you are at this stage of your life completely incapable of accepting good information from any source that is reliable and trustworthy. Someday you will realize that the earth isn't flat after all and that the moon isn't made of green cheese.
Someday, perhaps, you will also realize that the WT Society is not the God you thought it was, that it is instead among the false prophets and false teachers that Jesus warned about. As expressed by wannaexit in her post up above, you're a great help in showing others the bad influence the WT Society has upon those who choose to blindly become its dupes and slaves.
herk
i really wanna know.
i need the most accurate version to refer to in order to continue a project i'm working on.
frannie b
Excellent post Simwitness.
I agree!
To "scholar":
Not everybody is like you, especially Ray Franz. Even the WT Society recognized his scholarly ability. His is a name that can be trusted because his word is reliable. He doesn't put on a pretense such as you do by making phony claims of being a "scholar." Your pathetic efforts at deception are exposed by your poor spelling, poor grammar, poor definitions and especially your poor reasoning ability.
If their identity was so freely known as you claim then tell me who was the Chairman of the Committee and where are the minutes for the committee, Why did not Raymond Franz cite these documents or at least make som reference?
I know who the chairman was, but you've already indicated you wouldn't believe me if I told you. So what is your point in trying to find out from me? As for citing documents, how do you know I exist? Have you seen my birth certificate? Why do you continue to address me as a person if you have no documents to prove that I exist? The fact is I do exist and my identity can be known. There are persons in this forum who know my real name, even though they don't have any official documents on the matter. Just as surely the members of the NWT Committee once existed though they're all now dead and in their graves. Some of us know who they were. We know because we aren't so obstinate and contrary that we simply won't believe something if it's not in a signed and notarized document. We haven't chosen as you have to close our minds to facts that are easily available.
herk
