Posts by herk

287

All About The Trinity

by UnDisfellowshipped in

when jesus was about to die, he showed who his superior was by praying: "father, if you wish, remove this cup from me.

the one god is eternal (has always existed and always will), immortal (his divine nature cannot die), omnipotent (all-powerful), omniscient (all-knowing), omnipresent (he is everywhere at the same time), god is the only one who can read human hearts and minds, god cannot sin and cannot lie, god does not change his morals or his nature.

the trinity is not one person revealed three different ways (this is what "oneness pentecostals" believe).

herk

287

All About The Trinity

by UnDisfellowshipped in

when jesus was about to die, he showed who his superior was by praying: "father, if you wish, remove this cup from me.

the one god is eternal (has always existed and always will), immortal (his divine nature cannot die), omnipotent (all-powerful), omniscient (all-knowing), omnipresent (he is everywhere at the same time), god is the only one who can read human hearts and minds, god cannot sin and cannot lie, god does not change his morals or his nature.

the trinity is not one person revealed three different ways (this is what "oneness pentecostals" believe).

herk

Kenneson,

If I had any idea what you're driving at, I'd try to answer your question.

These are your posts relating to "the diagrams":

That illustrations shows 3 faces. You say it represents a 3-headed God or is it symbolical of three persons? What do you do about descriptions in Ezekiel 1:6, 10, 11, 15 where the living creatures are seen with 4 faces and the cherubs with two? Ezekiel 41:18. Apparently face in the Bible doesn't always mean "one" either.

So do you find fault with that illustration? If so, than explain to me Ezekiel.

Illustrations on page one: "Diagrams like this explain the Trinity very well." So do the three faces represent 3 persons or a 3-headed God?

But since you provided us with the diagrams, I would much prefer your explanation.

What "explanation" are you looking for? I think Ezekiel 1 and 41 are easy enough to visualize without anyone having to explain what Ezekiel saw. You asked, "So do the three faces represent 3 persons or a 3-headed God?" I gave my answer, and it doesn't seem to satisfy you.

You seem to be searching for something, and I have no idea what it is, as related to this thread. Unless you can clarify what you mean, I think the explanation you're looking for has to be found elsewhere.

herk

287

All About The Trinity

by UnDisfellowshipped in

when jesus was about to die, he showed who his superior was by praying: "father, if you wish, remove this cup from me.

the one god is eternal (has always existed and always will), immortal (his divine nature cannot die), omnipotent (all-powerful), omniscient (all-knowing), omnipresent (he is everywhere at the same time), god is the only one who can read human hearts and minds, god cannot sin and cannot lie, god does not change his morals or his nature.

the trinity is not one person revealed three different ways (this is what "oneness pentecostals" believe).

herk

Kenneson,

So do the three faces represent 3 persons or a 3-headed God?

If I understand you correctly, you can take your choice.

herk

287

All About The Trinity

by UnDisfellowshipped in

when jesus was about to die, he showed who his superior was by praying: "father, if you wish, remove this cup from me.

the one god is eternal (has always existed and always will), immortal (his divine nature cannot die), omnipotent (all-powerful), omniscient (all-knowing), omnipresent (he is everywhere at the same time), god is the only one who can read human hearts and minds, god cannot sin and cannot lie, god does not change his morals or his nature.

the trinity is not one person revealed three different ways (this is what "oneness pentecostals" believe).

herk

UnDisfellowshipped,

Trinitarian Interpretation of John 1:1: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God [The Father], and the Word was God [The Son]."

How conventient! Trinitarians have two definitions of God: (1) "God is a Trinity of Three Persons," and (2) "God means only the Father" or "God means only the Son." It's a bit arbitrary, don't you think, that you completely eliminated "God the Holy Spirit" from John 1:1?

herk

287

All About The Trinity

by UnDisfellowshipped in

when jesus was about to die, he showed who his superior was by praying: "father, if you wish, remove this cup from me.

the one god is eternal (has always existed and always will), immortal (his divine nature cannot die), omnipotent (all-powerful), omniscient (all-knowing), omnipresent (he is everywhere at the same time), god is the only one who can read human hearts and minds, god cannot sin and cannot lie, god does not change his morals or his nature.

the trinity is not one person revealed three different ways (this is what "oneness pentecostals" believe).

herk

Kenneson,

Somehow you and I are on different wavelengths. I'm not the one who brought up the issue of the three faces idea. UnDisfellowshipped said the WTS misrepresents the Trinity by suggesting God has three faces. I've simply provided the evidence that Trinitarians themselves paint God with three faces.

herk

287

All About The Trinity

by UnDisfellowshipped in

when jesus was about to die, he showed who his superior was by praying: "father, if you wish, remove this cup from me.

the one god is eternal (has always existed and always will), immortal (his divine nature cannot die), omnipotent (all-powerful), omniscient (all-knowing), omnipresent (he is everywhere at the same time), god is the only one who can read human hearts and minds, god cannot sin and cannot lie, god does not change his morals or his nature.

the trinity is not one person revealed three different ways (this is what "oneness pentecostals" believe).

herk

Kenneson,

I wrote that Trinitarians themselves illustrate God as having three faces. What about that statement don't you understand?

herk

38

Is Jesus inferior because it says that He will "be subject" in 1 Cor 15:28?

by hooberus in

"and when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that god may be all in all.

" 1 corinthians 15:28. .

the watchower implies that since jesus is said to be "subject" unto "him that put all things under him" that therefore jesus is inferior to god, and the trinity is thus not true.

herk

38

Is Jesus inferior because it says that He will "be subject" in 1 Cor 15:28?

by hooberus in

"and when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that god may be all in all.

" 1 corinthians 15:28. .

the watchower implies that since jesus is said to be "subject" unto "him that put all things under him" that therefore jesus is inferior to god, and the trinity is thus not true.

herk

hooberus,

Regardless of what any book, article, or other write-up has to say, the fact remains that you've chosen to read into what Jesus said something that he did not say. Why are you incapable of acknowledging that?

Jesus simply said, "My Father is greater than I." You say he did not mean that--that he meant his Father was greater only in a certain way. You have no scriptural basis for your claim, yet you stick to it. How reasonable and honest is that?

herk

38

Is Jesus inferior because it says that He will "be subject" in 1 Cor 15:28?

by hooberus in

"and when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that god may be all in all.

" 1 corinthians 15:28. .

the watchower implies that since jesus is said to be "subject" unto "him that put all things under him" that therefore jesus is inferior to god, and the trinity is thus not true.

herk

hooberus,

Herk, I am not saying that because the Son is "subject" to the Father, that therefore he must also share an equal ontological nature with the Father (just as no one argues that because the demons were "subject" to the disciples that they therefore must have the same nature as the disciples).

I find your statement disingenuous. You also stated above:

The Watchower implies that since Jesus is said to be "subject" unto "him that put all things under him" that therefore Jesus is inferior to God, and the Trinity is thus not true. This reasoning assumes that being "subject" implies an inferior nature.

Why be critical of the Watchtower when you yourself are making assumptions?

Jesus simply said "My Father is greater than I am great." You want to turn around what he said to mean that his Father is greater only in the way you choose. At least the Watchtower accepts exactly what Jesus said, whereas you've chosen to embroider and embellish what he said to give it a different meaning.

herk

287

All About The Trinity

by UnDisfellowshipped in

when jesus was about to die, he showed who his superior was by praying: "father, if you wish, remove this cup from me.

the one god is eternal (has always existed and always will), immortal (his divine nature cannot die), omnipotent (all-powerful), omniscient (all-knowing), omnipresent (he is everywhere at the same time), god is the only one who can read human hearts and minds, god cannot sin and cannot lie, god does not change his morals or his nature.

the trinity is not one person revealed three different ways (this is what "oneness pentecostals" believe).

herk

UnDisfellowshipped,

Also, notice that the Bible says that a husband and wife become "One Flesh" in unity. So a husband and wife are "One Flesh" even though they are two distinct persons.

Yes, a husband and wife become "one flesh," as you say, "in unity." They do not become one being. They are two persons and two individual beings. Their oneness is due to their unity of purpose. The Trinity, however, teaches that the Three Persons are One Being. So your illustration is off the mark.

John 10:29-30: My Father [...] is greater than all [...] I and [my] Father are ONE.

When Jesus said "I and my Father are one," Trinitarians claim that he meant they are one God. But Jesus also prayed regarding his followers "that they may be one, as we are." (John 17:11)

Why do Trinitarians insist that John 10:30 means one God (one divine Being) but that John 17:11 means one in unity (not one being)? Jesus specifically said the oneness of his followers was exactly the same as the oneness between himself and his Father--"as we are."

herk