Posts by Roddy

21

What is the WTS financial position?

by Roddy in

i know this may seen an obvious question but i'm wondering if their downward financial situation is accelerating in the last five years.. we know of the large real estate sell-offs in brooklyn and their large bethel layoffs -- things they never report on in their publications.

pushing more and more of the traveling overseer expenses to the local circuit and congregations.

how they have taken a lot of shortcuts with regards their printing operations.

Roddy

I'm helping by going to kh, donating $0.00 and also throwing away more than 20 mags a month

LOL

No, think of it that you are donating 20 mags a month for recycling efforts.

21

What is the WTS financial position?

by Roddy in

i know this may seen an obvious question but i'm wondering if their downward financial situation is accelerating in the last five years.. we know of the large real estate sell-offs in brooklyn and their large bethel layoffs -- things they never report on in their publications.

pushing more and more of the traveling overseer expenses to the local circuit and congregations.

how they have taken a lot of shortcuts with regards their printing operations.

Roddy

Unfortunately, we don't have any way of knowing what their true financial position is. I doubt that even the governing body has a good idea of how they are doing financially. I think it is plausible that they might have much more money than they indicate. Their cost cutting could be just a ploy to encourage donations while keeping expenses low. It might depend on whether the people who handle the money actually believe in the religion. If not, they might be diverting funds elsewhere or hiding money in case the organisation collapses.
On the other hand, their financial position could be much worse than we are led to believe. I could see this being the case if they made bad investments or are making secret settlements to avoid highly publicised lawsuits.
As long as they handle their money wisely, they should be able to meet their modest expenses (considering all the free labor they use) while squeezing the poor publishers for money and enjoying occasional windfalls when they die and name the Watchtower society in their wills. I think they are probably more concerned that the legal climate could change and they will have to face an avalanche of lawsuits. That could bankrupt them.

Those are good points, DT. Thanks.

I forgot about the varioius kinds of lawsuits they contend with constantly. Let's never forget that they obviously have good legal talent whether somehow acquired, maintain at not small expense, or a mix of both.

The governing body is probably too old to care or comprehend what's going on. I think they and a bunch of other older career Bethelites are just hoping for all-expenses-paid retirement whether they are devoted to the religion or not. They really have no place to go so that is motivation enough.

I heard that they do have secret (or perhaps not so secret) stocks and investments. I don't know how those are performing during the economic depression we're in. And if they have more plans for layoffs and real estate sell-offs of other Brooklyn facilities, what they could get for them now is much less than if they sold them off two years ago. But much of it still is prime waterfront and near waterfront property.

And the irony is the WTS should be glad at being victims of their own success. What I mean is that by encouraging the rank and file to give up good paying jobs, higher education to get well paying jobs, and job promotions for better pay in order to be Pioneer part-timers at menial jobs, they have this vast devoted free labor force that can only afford to give WTS menial donations.

But no one really explains that being a Pioneer is an expensive "occupation" that is encouraged by the WTS but not supported by the WTS.

Of course, I feel for those that come up to their retirement years and have nothing to show for it. Or those that need medical or dental attention but have no medical or dental insurance to help them. And other similarly sad situations.

Seems that the only thing that the WTS will give for free is no-blood support. But they will also give you free total cut-off with disfellowshipment if you decide to not follow their "free" no-blood advice. So much reward for so many years of free devoted service!

It's human robbery. So much human robbery at every level it just blows my mind!

I know that what took it over the top for me is when the elders secretly gave the deed of the Kingdom Hall to the WTS. I learned that this is common practice and the congregation is never informed of this. So the congregation brings upon it the mortgage of the property but it is turned-over to the WTS in a secret meeting? That means that in the United States alone the WTS holds the deed to every kingdom hall property. I guess that's a vast real estate block they can loan against when their finances gets critical. What will be interesting is when the WTS can't pay the loan. Does that mean kingdom halls will be liquidated or the rank-and-file is obligated to give the WTS a "bailout"?

As you can see I'm letting my imagination run wild. LOL! But it will be interesting how they play their financial cards and how the rank-and-file will react.

21

What is the WTS financial position?

by Roddy in

i know this may seen an obvious question but i'm wondering if their downward financial situation is accelerating in the last five years.. we know of the large real estate sell-offs in brooklyn and their large bethel layoffs -- things they never report on in their publications.

pushing more and more of the traveling overseer expenses to the local circuit and congregations.

how they have taken a lot of shortcuts with regards their printing operations.

Roddy

I know this may seen an obvious question but I'm wondering if their downward financial situation is accelerating in the last five years.

We know of the large real estate sell-offs in Brooklyn and their large Bethel layoffs -- things they never report on in their publications. Pushing more and more of the traveling overseer expenses to the local circuit and congregations. How they have taken a lot of shortcuts with regards their printing operations. And of their summer conventions - hosting more of them in their assembly halls by dividing their districts instead of renting stadiums and large public facilites as they done in the past. But are they getting more desperate in the last five years or so?

Moving the "congregation" book study from individual homes to the congregation was a necessary consession. Because the rank and file had to put more and more of their "donations" money into traveling expenses instead of in the congregation's donation boxes. (No, I'm cynical of the WTS published reasons for this adjustment - it wasn't to ease the burden on the brothers but to hope they get more money dropped into the congregation's donation boxes.)

I think the next moves we'll see from the WTS really translates to evidence of their declining financial health.

I'm also sure they are thinking of a new plan to extract new money from the rank and file somehow. I'll bet I know what it is -- secret "donations" of the congregation funds to the WTS by the congregation's elder body. Much of what they do when they have the Circuit Assembly elder's meeting -- the rubberstamp approval of the circuit "donating" circuit money to the WTS - which the circuit never knows about publically.

This will be interesting.

6

Raymond Franz: Charge in financial affairs!

by IMercenary1975 in

not so long ago on a russian-speaking resource http://antifranz.narod.ru/ was published a volume article in style "contra apion" named "franzizm".

i was extremely interested by that fact that the author of article has mentioned about some mystical letters from gb in branches in connection with an expelling of ray frenz.

ostensibly in these letters said that raymond franz has been expelled for financial affairs.

Roddy

Is the WTS trustworthy? Consider that first before reading what they have said.

11

So what is the REAL deal with the International Convention

by av8orntexas in

you know i was baptized in 96 and all this time my understanding of the international convention is that there is one a year ?

you have to be accepted to go correct ?

i was always put off by that.

Roddy

His wife and I work at the same company, a major US airline, they could fly there FREE !!!!!!! Why are you forced to pay the crazy amount that the WTS says pay ? I never got this. Has anyone here ever gone and worked 2-3 jobs to go, and most of all was it worth it or what you thought it would be ?

It comes off as a status symbol among some dubs I've heard speak about it

Good for them!

I think the main reason is for PR. They make it a big show -- especially in areas where the convention are held where it was banned in that country previously. Then watch for pictures and commentary in the pages of the Watchower magazines and other publications later on.

Rather than the WTS pay JWs to go, just make traveling there a spiritual privilage. Nice trick, actually.

Kind of like the old conventions at Cedar Point Ohio.

Make no mistake about it - Cedar Point was a resort/amusement park which was strategically located in the center of the United States near the major railroad hub of the country. So it was accessable from any point in the United States and Canada. All a foreign traveler had to do was make it to a United States shore and hop on a train.

I'm sure there was a lot of hype making conventions at this resort/amusement park town some sort of spiritual privilage too -- if you make the time, effort, and assume the expense to do it. Of course, those that work at the WTS gets to go this resort/amusement park for free paid for by "voluntary donations".

I'm not sure which was the stronger draw that convention: The fact that it was Cedar Point or attending the convention for more of the same information and a new publication release?

Are the modern foreign conventions any different?

10

How many JW's are over emotional?

by wobble in

Roddy

Over emotional to what? Challenges to their religion?

Remember that many of them gave their lives to the religion. Their hopes, their dreams, their retirement, their prospects for marriage and children, their having a better life for themselves and their families, being part of their natural family's life, their old friends, and great many more.

The idea that they made a grave lifelong mistake - and that have and are encouraging others into that same grave mistake - will result in an over emotional protectional response.

18

Interesting comment by a JW regarding the new schedule

by wha happened? in

a buddy of mine who is still serving and doesn't treat me like a leper was chatting with me about the new bookstudy arrangement and the meetings in general.

he stated that the way the parts are set up now, that simply winging the answers from the km or other study material, is next to impossible.

he went on to state that he understood that the society is pushing for more pre-study.. at the risk of sounding bad, are there any thoughts on a push to get rid of the fence sitters?.

Roddy

At the risk of sounding bad, are there any thoughts on a push to get rid of the fence sitters?

I think it will be difficult or at least tricky. Most have hardly the time to go over the material - unless they have an active part on it - and it was simply easy when the conductor was fishing for comments to just quote back something out of the material, and everyone was pleased. Of course, those with the gift of gab say a bit more and those people are really appreciated at the meetings.

I think the rank and file will revert to habits that were in force for all their lives in the WTS. The rank and file are the product of the WTS insistance that they repeat what is in the literature. I think this new ploy is probably a PR answer to some criticism. But the WTS has always been arrogant to criticism anyway and why they decided on this issue will be both short lived and superceded.

6

When did The Watchtower stop calling Rutherford "Judge"?

by VM44 in

the watcthower used to call rutherford "judge rutherford" in its articles.. for years though when directly referencing him, the watchotwer calls him "brother rutherford" and leaves out the title "judge".. if quoting someone's personal story and that person uses "judge rutherford", then the watchtower will leave that in the article, but they will not use the title on their own.. so, when did the watchtower stop calling rutherford "judge"?.

...and why did they stop doing so?.

Roddy

That is an interesting question, VM. I also found the follow-up question in the case of "Pastor" Russell interesting too. I hope those with real information would see the question and offer answers as I'm really curious.

In my years in the religion I remember that he was called "Judge" Rutherford because he did occasional work as a substitute judge while he worked as a lawyer - a public prosecutor specifically. And even when he became a "Bible Student" (as they were then known) he became the Watch Tower's legal counsel. As far as I know he never served on the bench in any court since becoming a Bible Student.

While the Watchtower publications give a rosy picture on why he was called "Pastor", from what I can find his name came about because congregations at the time relied on membership voting their church to be associated the Watch Tower organization on a yearly basis. They would vote Charles Russell as their "Pastor". Soon other congregations would adopt this title as a tradition and eventually he earned this nickname which eventually stuck through the rest of his life. He didn't mind it at all. But the fact is he never recieved any theological education nor certification from any institution.

I hope this helps but I yield to those who know more than I do.

16

Sychelles Island crash proved you can't land a plane on water!

by Witness 007 in

i was an advocate of the idea that a sea landing is beyond impossible for any pilot.

some years ago terrorists hijack a plane in africa and demand to be flown to australia.

the pilot runs out of fuel at the sychelles islands and ditches in the sea with most passengers dead or drowned.

Roddy

I think the passengers in that plane that landed in the Hudson River were blessed with an EXCELLENT pilot. Even when an incident is not the pilot's fault, a very good pilot will save lives both on the ground and in his aircraft.

I'm still surprised that a couple of big geese not worth $40 dollars in a supermarket would take down a 77 million dollar airplane. I thought jet engines were tougher than that. I guess I'm wrong.

2

paramedic molesters

by lancelink in

here is an interesting article: .

url: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28179848/ .

paramedics accused of molesting patients .

Roddy

And you have police that will pull you over but won't give you a ticket if you perform a sexual favor. And the list goes on.

There are abusers of power and the public trust everywhere. The best we can do is expose them so they can't hide behind the privilege they abuse any longer.