In trying to put blood transfusions into perspective for a family member who was raised a jw but never baptized, I used the illustration to explain the value of a symbol. Blood symbolizes life. As such, a hotwheels car symbolizes the actual car. What has more value? The hotwheels car? Using JW logic that would seem to be the case. Was the Israelites sacrificing of animals and sprinkling blood on the altar of more value than the actual shed blood of Jesus which those sacrifices represented? Also, Leviticus 17:15 shows that the punishment for breaking the blood law by actually eating an animal that was unbled was that they were to be unclean until evening, nothing more dramatic like other violations of the law. Why? Whether a native or alien resident the importance was that they needed to eat to survive thus showing the flexibility, even then, that to save life the law could be broken. Jesus broke the law when the women with the flow of blood touched him, and he didn't return home to cleanse himself. He was technically unclean and she had broken the law which prohibited her from being among the people and touching someone. What was the consequence for her action? She was healed. Did Jesus rebuke her for breaking the Mosaic Law? No. He said "her faith had made her well". Paul, when writing after the command at Acts against eating things strangled, things sacrificed and eating blood, wrote at 1corinthians chapter 8 that he would eat things sacrified to idols since his conscience was strong. He also said in 1 corinthians 10:27 that when eating at an unbeliever's home to "eat everything that is set before you, making no inquiry on account of your conscience". This means the meat likely would not have been bled properly, could have been strangled and as paul later says could have been sacrificial. He also states at 1 corinthians 10:25 "everything that is sold in a meat market keep eating, making no inquiry on account of your conscience." The important thing here is that they weren't even to inquire, meaning it wasn't important. I could go on and on but, suffice it to say, the bible shows that the prohibition on blood, especially to the point of death, is easily refuted with a little research. So the choice of whether or not to accept a transfusion should not be based on a misunderstanding of scripture and the mistaken stance that the bible says not to.
spanky
JoinedPosts by spanky
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25
Would you accept blood?
by JH inwould you give blood if there was an urgent need for it?
and if you were the one who needed blood, would you accept it?
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Would you accept blood?
by JH inwould you give blood if there was an urgent need for it?
and if you were the one who needed blood, would you accept it?
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spanky
I think most people if given the option would take a synthetic or engineered substitute for blood if it transported oxygen as well. Unfortunately, there is no widely available substitute. So is life with HIV or Hepatitis better than death in 5 minutes on the operating table? Ask the families of those who have lost loved ones because they refused blood.
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None baptized at circuit assembly in Greeley,CO.
by spanky infirst time i have ever seen or heard of this but no one was baptized with 800+ in attendance at our circuit assembly two weeks back!
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spanky
A paduan: I haven't gone out in service for close to a year now. I do still turn in time though. I count every conversation I have with family and friends who aren't witnesses in which I explain to them the truth about JW's. I also have counted placements everytime I loan out my "apostate" books.
emancipated: It isn't very likely Noah and Lot went door to door as we know it. In fact 1st century christians didn't go door to door as we do it. Most preaching/teaching was done to groups in public places. I still believe that it is my christian responsibility to speak about God and his son. Jesus always sought to be effective with his teaching and ministry, clearly the JW activity in most developed countries isn't yielding any real fruitage( considering that just population growth should yield 1- 1.5% growth). My suggestion a few years back was that JW's should reach out through charity. I felt at the time it would promote more satisfaction among congregation and would even bring more growth. Of course I was shot down.
Jourles: You are sure right about the smell. It wasn't bad during assembly but man when the wind blows just right! I flew over some of the feed lots(which can hold 100,000 cattle) in a small plane last year. Even at several thousand feet up the smell was overwhelming. In the book "Fast Food Nation" the author reference greeley and it's history. Couldn't eat fast food hamburger again after that book!
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None baptized at circuit assembly in Greeley,CO.
by spanky infirst time i have ever seen or heard of this but no one was baptized with 800+ in attendance at our circuit assembly two weeks back!
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spanky
Jurs, my wife and I are still attending meetings and associating for now so I can't really give details, sorry. I am sure we know alot of the same people though Steve and Pam Rowen, the Cole family, etc. We will try the fade away when we move. We miss just enough meetings to keep the "healthier animals" in the herd unsure of what to do with us "weaker animals"(Stop and help and risk being devoured by the "lion seeking to devour someone" or follow their natural instinct which is to run). I got the idea about a year ago to drift into this "limbo" that we had observed and wondered at over the years thinking to ourselves "why do we work so hard to bring people into the fold and then let them drift away so easily"? The key is to not miss too many meetings or you will get attention from the elders. We have some family and good friends who we would hate to lose if we DA'd or were DF'd.
Blondie,
The speaker(bernard clay, foothills) started off the talk aknowledging that there were no candidates for baptism. He then adapted it into are we living up to our own baptisms. It was the same outline just with key words changed so instead of the questions being asked it was presented as "do you remember the questions that were asked of you?" then the questions. It did get a little strange a couple of times but I was in too much shock to remember details, I was to busy counting the hours spent with no results.
At the last District assembly I added the number baptized from all the assemblies that year(in between gasps of breath due to smoke from the forest fires that literally filled the assembly with thick smoke) took the attendance/hours spent based on averages and it worked out to 148,000 hours per baptized person( I did take out the real young ones who were obviously raised around the org.) from door to door/informal. If you could separate informal witnessing from formal then the numbers would be even uglier. It begs the question "would Jesus have done this in the face of such poor results?" I think most witnesses haven't even opened their eyes to the possibility that the door to door work isn't working. Too much propaganda highlighting the opposite.
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Next Olympics/Bethel
by spanky ini have been reading the board for some time.
finally had something that i thought was worth posting.
i have a friend back east who is an elder.
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spanky
Orangefatcat...my first reaction was to question this as well. However, if you consider that Patterson certainly has the space to handle moving the headquarters there and the value of the Brooklyn properties. It is a smart move to relocate the headquarters. If the WTS is indeed facing financial difficulties what could be a better way to raise capital without affecting operations significantly? I was told that the city of NY approached WTS with initial "feelers" though not the other way around. Only time will tell but I thought it was worth posting. I believe the "source" was a mutual aquaintance who is in charge of purchasing at Bethel, however, it could have been someone else.
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None baptized at circuit assembly in Greeley,CO.
by spanky infirst time i have ever seen or heard of this but no one was baptized with 800+ in attendance at our circuit assembly two weeks back!
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spanky
I agree. Latest worldwide reports show growth in U.S. perhaps related to 9-11. It was interesting how the baptism talk was modified to fit.
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None baptized at circuit assembly in Greeley,CO.
by spanky infirst time i have ever seen or heard of this but no one was baptized with 800+ in attendance at our circuit assembly two weeks back!
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spanky
First time I have ever seen or heard of this but no one was baptized with 800+ in attendance at our circuit assembly two weeks back!
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Next Olympics/Bethel
by spanky ini have been reading the board for some time.
finally had something that i thought was worth posting.
i have a friend back east who is an elder.
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spanky
I have been reading the board for some time. Finally had something that I thought was worth posting. I have a friend back east who is an elder. He informed me that there is a rumor that the city of New York has had communication with the society about purchasing many if not all of the facilities in Brooklyn if they are awarded the next Olympics. It is assumed New York will get the Olympics due to sympathy for 9-11. At any rate this meshed well with news that presses are moving to Patterson and the changes that are happening at the headquarters. My friend mentioned it was big money being discussed...he said a billion + dollars. Could be groundless but does make enough sense I thought I would post it. He is reliable and not prone to gossip. He wouldn't indicate who he had heard this from but said it was credible. He has a number of friends at the headquarters in high levels of responsibility.