Posts by rocketman

261

Welcome !

by Simon in

jw
friends

welcome to the newest jehovah's witness discussion forum on the net.. please register so that you can post to the forum and turn this into a welcoming place for other brothers and sisters online

rocketman

Hard to believe this thread is still making the rounds. A blast from the past, and 22 months since I last posted to it.

166

MUST READ AlanF's email to Knocking.org

by sf in

this is a must-read that, hopefully, will stay an "active topic" for all seekers and lurkers, by bumping it to the top as often as possible.

alan wrote it in randys {dogpatch} thread regarding knocking.org documentary and in reply to the email mr. engardio sent to barbara anderson.

however, it is so vital a read that it indeed needs its own thread:.

Genesis Chapter 34

by rocketman in

whether you think the bible is the word of god or not, one thing is pretty clear: it relates some disturbing stories.

some of those stories can even be termed as sordid.

genesis 34 contains an account of moral degradation that is almost unrivaled (though the story contained in genesis 38 comes close, and judges 19 probably exceeds it) in terms of moral perfidy.. genesis 34 relates the account of the sexual violation of jacob's daughter dinah, followed by the shocking overreaction by her brothers.

rocketman

Whether you think the Bible is the word of God or not, one thing is pretty clear: it relates some disturbing stories. Some of those stories can even be termed as sordid. Genesis 34 contains an account of moral degradation that is almost unrivaled (though the story contained in Genesis 38 comes close, and Judges 19 probably exceeds it) in terms of moral perfidy.

Genesis 34 relates the account of the sexual violation of Jacob's daughter Dinah, followed by the shocking overreaction by her brothers. In order to understand it properly, one might first note events in Genesis 23. That chapter tells of the reunion of Jacob and Esau.

In verse 14 of Genesis 23, Jacob refuses his brother's invitation to travel under guard. Jacob here is apparently putting his trust in God's protection rather than Esau's sword-bearing men. But Jacob, whose actions are frequently laced with deception (Genesis 25:29-33; 27:22-24; 31:20) tells Esau "So let my lord go ahead of his servant...until I come to my lord in Seir."

Jacob apparently had no intention of going to Seir (located southeast of Canaan) and instead settled near the city of Shechem in Canaan. In doing so, he delayed his return to Bethel, never did go to Seir, and made a decision that may have set the stage for the events of chapter 34.

Jacob, though considered a righteous man, made an decision similar to that of Lot, who also decided to locate near a city with inhabitants of questionable character (Genesis 13:12). His daughter Dinah then "went to visit the women of the land". While she is often criticized for doing this in religious commentary, it should be remembered that as a young woman, she would naturally seek companionship among female peers. She had no such peers among her family, and they were now encamped far from the land of Paddan-Aram, where her only other relatives lived. Indeed, God's direction that Abraham and his descendants were to live in the land of Canaan brought unique challenges to the patriarchs and their kin.

From this point, chapter 34 prsents a cascade of sin, culminating in a heinous crime by two of Jacob's sons, Simeon and Levi. His other sons later took spoil from the slaughtered Canaanites, so they too would bear responsibility for making Jacob "a stench" to the inhabitants of the land. (vs 27-30).

All parties in this account were to blame to varying degrees for what had transpired. Shechem violated a young woman. Though he tried to make amends, he certainly was deserving of punishment. The other people in Shechem were perhaps guilty of greed (vs 23). The sons of Jacob did worse - besides murder and pillage, they were guilty of deceit (vs13) as well as guilty of using the sacred ceremony of circumcision with wicked intent (vss 14-17). Jacob, after making the questionable decision to move close to a Canaanite city, seemed to defer to his sons rather than assert is patriarchal authority. It was his sons who proposed the circumcision agreement, and they agreed (as part of their ruse) that the family of Jacob should intermarry with the Canaanites (vs 16). Jacob should have stopped things right then and there instead of allowing his sons to make a proposal that even on the surface was against what Jacob perceived as the will of God. Was it not Jacob who went to Paddan-Aram to find a wife rather than seek one from among the Canaanites, as his brother Esau had done? (Gen 28:1, 2).

People who read this account are often quick to blame Dinah, but as I see it, there's a heavy burden of blame to be shared by those around her.

29

Watchtower Blotch of Alpha and Omega interpretation

by Ticker in

now to cover a point of a different nature but one i feel very important, a point in which the society has deliberatly tried to gloss over in their manipulating of scripture.

we see in rev.

1:7,8 a mention of the alpha and omega, the one who is, who was, and who is to come.

rocketman

The bulk of my last post, in fact, set forth some of the ways in which Revelation applied many other divine titles and descriptors to Christ in a binitarian fashion. Christ and his Father were clearly distinguished from each other in some ways, and blurred in other ways, with the application of the titles "First and the Last", "King of Kings and Lord of Lords", "Alpha and Omega", etc

What Leolaia states here is the major reason why debates about the relationship between God and Christ are never -ending. The Bible presents both possibilities - two distinct beings, and yet also a "blurred" presentation of the two. I think much the same can be said of the nature of the Holy Spirit - it's sometimes presented as non-personal, other times a person. The debates will never end.

75

The first time I've been "down" b/c of JWD...

by upside/down in

jw
friends

i've had good and bad days since stumbing onto jwd... and i've learned more in my short time here than in the last 20 years as an "active" and true to the bone...dub.... but today (tonight) i'm really sad... the tone of almost every thread i read has gotten "ugly".... i love "spirited" discussion, but this is different.

it feels like forum anarchy.. is there no yielding anymore...?.

maybe it was just too much happened today... or solar flares or something... i don't know...don't care.... maybe my new found "love" for my country (not the blind patriotic crap) and life coupled with the obvious animosity toward this love by some...well just bums me out.

rocketman

I'm sure I'll get over it... it's not a big deal... but it is the FIRST time I've ever gone to bed feeling this bad...not ;by what's going on in the world...but what's going on in my JWD "world".

If what is written here ever begins to make a person actually feel hurt or bad emotionally, then, in my opinion, it's time for that person to re-evaluate the place that a discussion board actually has in their personal life.

While this board can be important, is participating in emotionally-charged discussions so important that in the end, you actually have negative emotions, with all the negatives that such stress can bring? I'm sure many folks feel differently, but to me, if a person actually goes to bed feeling bad, these discussions have gone beyond their proper place or perspective.

16

Ugh - a nice article about JW's

by TresHappy in

jw
friends

hope no one has posted this...house by house, soul by soulgmu prof: 'cold calls' can help religions growby andrea useem.

special to the examiner.

published: wednesday, june 29, 2005 11:43 pm edt.

rocketman

"Jehovah's Witnesses, however, take the concept of proselytization to its extreme and make door-to-door witnessing an ongoing requirement for all members".

An "ongoing requirement"....."extreme" indeed.

16

Ugh - a nice article about JW's

by TresHappy in

jw
friends

hope no one has posted this...house by house, soul by soulgmu prof: 'cold calls' can help religions growby andrea useem.

special to the examiner.

published: wednesday, june 29, 2005 11:43 pm edt.

rocketman

6,000 hours per convert. Yeah, it's terribly inefficient. And I doubt that many of those "converts" are truly converted. And since the average jw puts in about 120 hours per year, that means 50 jws have to preach 10 hrs per month to make one "convert" each year. And since it takes only one jw to study with that person, that means the 49 others are out there preaching with no results.

31

No increase so far for the Society in the United States

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

from september 2004 to april 2005, there has been no significant increase in the number of publishers reporting for the 2005 service year, which began last september.

september 2004 - 990,551

october 2004 - 993,476

rocketman

Typical of the time they waste in their so-called "Preaching Work". 992,000 people spending an average of about 9 hours per month. So each month that's about 9,000,000 hours, or about 54,000,000 hours spent preaching in six months to make, basically, zero converts.

54

Gays and the Bible.

by gumby in

first of all.....i ain't bashin gays here......just have a question.. this morning i read in the paper that the united church of christ has unanimously approved of same sex marriage.

this now is the largest protestant sect who has approved of gay marriages.. my question is.......how does religion justify a way of life the bible condems as sinful?

what is their scriptural argument to justify this action as proper?.

rocketman

Good point Runningman. Heck, even the WTS finds it's way around some of the stuff in the Bible that you mentioned (example - no slavery, though it could be argued that being a jw is a form of slavery).

Since the UCC is liberal, my guess is that liberal attitude led them to this decision. This could mean lots of converts in the coming months.

15

God Bless You Luther Vandross

by prophecor in

jw
friends

april 20, 1951-july 1,2005

you as a soul balladeer will be sorely missed

rocketman

He had a style that no one could really duplicate, and he sang in poetic rather than explicit fashion. The music industry has lost a good one.