Posts by setfreefinally

50

Can God exist outside of time

by setfreefinally in

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some say god exists outside of time and space therefore he can predict the future.. any comments?

setfreefinally

Why do you believe that God can see what you did last year, but not next year?

I guess because I believe it would take away free will and I find it hard to believe that with the messed up state of affairs on the earth that have nothing to do with man's sin (supposed reason for the condition on earth) that if God is that "all powerful" so as to be able to see what everyones future is to the minutest detail from the moment of "creation of time" that the universe would be so screwed up.

As you can see I haven't made up my mind completely just leaning strongly towards the above conclusion.

50

Can God exist outside of time

by setfreefinally in

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some say god exists outside of time and space therefore he can predict the future.. any comments?

setfreefinally

I personally don't believe in a "timescape" outlook. Thanks for the post.

What is a "timescape" outlook?

50

Can God exist outside of time

by setfreefinally in

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some say god exists outside of time and space therefore he can predict the future.. any comments?

setfreefinally

50

Can God exist outside of time

by setfreefinally in

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some say god exists outside of time and space therefore he can predict the future.. any comments?

setfreefinally

Setfree... I'll reply the same thing here that I was going to say in reply to your PM... I don't believe that orderliness enters into it.

If it were a matter of God making predictions, then the universe would have to be orderly (or, more accurately, deterministic) to make such predictions possible. I guess I was thinking along the lines of God being a God of complete order and we do not see this in all of his creation.

The point of God being outside time, however, is that He's not predicting... He's not considering all the possibilities of the future... He's seeing what actually hapens at all points in time. How can God see what I will do next year if somewhere between now and then I exercise my free will to lets say, jump off a building. I wouldn't even be here next year. In other words what actually hapens at all points in time. would actually be constantly changing. Am I not getting something here?

If these seems improbable to you, well, that's your prerogative, of course. I should add, however, that God's ability to see the future has nothing to do with His ability to control it. Let's say that you're watching fish in an aquarium... does that mean that you can automatically also control what they do? Of course not! Are you saying God does not have the ability to control the future? Some things that come to mind are earthquakes, volcanoes that seem to be evidence of bad design in the first place. If the earth was formed to be inhabited by God for humans why make it inhospitable to life in some ways. BTW earthquakes and volcanoes were here before man IMO so mans sin probably did not cause it.

50

Can God exist outside of time

by setfreefinally in

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some say god exists outside of time and space therefore he can predict the future.. any comments?

setfreefinally

Well, its obvious that you folks are way ahead of me on this. But from the comments from everyone I have hopefully learned something.

Euphemism, I don't mind the matter of christian beliefs being entered into the discussion because I think they are inextricably tied to belief in God and time and free will or predestination.

It seems improbable that God could see all things past, present and future as if they had already happened to him. Things being static or unchangeable would make it more probable but still highly improbable.

It seems even more improbable to the point of almost being practically nonexistent that we have free will and that God can see with absolute certainty exactly what choices we make and exactly what circumstances we make them under and every scenario that might play out since the beginning of universe.

This is why:

The orderliness but also the disorderliness of the universe and creation points to, to me anyway, that things can and do go wrong and it is not possible even for God to see and control everything. If there is a God???? I dont know.

Any more comments from you good folks.

7

Prophecies in the Bible

by setfreefinally in

were they actually written before the events happened?

setfreefinally

Blondie:Of course, the validity of these as prophecies depends on being able to establish with some certainty that these words were penned before the events they talk about. Ancient history (even current history) is not that easy to establish.

So in your opinion do you think there is a high degree of certainty they were penned before the events?

Or not?

7

Prophecies in the Bible

by setfreefinally in

were they actually written before the events happened?

setfreefinally

Thanks! But does that quote only apply to the WTS interpretation of bible prophecies or bible prophecies fulfilled in bible times?

7

Prophecies in the Bible

by setfreefinally in

were they actually written before the events happened?

setfreefinally

Were they actually written before the events happened?

50

Can God exist outside of time

by setfreefinally in

.

some say god exists outside of time and space therefore he can predict the future.. any comments?

setfreefinally

Interesting comments by all!

Chap: If God is omnipresent as is alluded to in the Bible, he exists at every place at every time. If this is true, God does not have to exist outside of time. If a time is viewed like a place and vice-versa, and there is infinity, there is no such thing is outside of time. Time is then part of infinity just like place is. If God is infinite, can he exist outside of himself?

:I think this view allows for both predestination and free will. Since God is everywhere, he is in the future as well as the past. If this is correct, God does not see things in the future as we do. Everything in our time-space would be either in the present or in the past in God's view. How do the angels fit into this picture? The bible would seem to indicate that they view time and their existence and our existence in a similar manner as most of us do. The scripture comes to mind among others that when a sinner repents that the angels rejoice and God for that matter also. They would apparently be viewing/living the same slice of time as we are. To put God somehow outside of this dimension whether he be inside or outside of "time" seems unlikely to me. It seems just as logical to believe in invisible pink unicorns, which I don't.

50

Can God exist outside of time

by setfreefinally in

.

some say god exists outside of time and space therefore he can predict the future.. any comments?

setfreefinally

Euphemism wrote:

But this is not because it is static, but rather because God can see all points of time at once. Not only "can," but "must" and "does". Because if God were to make a choice to see some things at one time, and not at another, that would imply that he was inside time!

Thank you for your comments. Whether one can see all points of time at once or it is static means relatively the same thing doesnt it. It would seem that all events throughout time are still unchangeable if God can see all points of time past or future, unless I misunderstood you.

Unrelated point.

God creating the universe would be kind of like playing chess with an opponent and knowing his every move in every game you played before he ever made his first move. What fun would that be and what point would it prove?