Some say God exists outside of time and space therefore he can predict the future.
Any comments?
Can God exist outside of time
by setfreefinally 50 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Sentinel
Just happened by on here briefly and saw your post. It's my opinion that "time" is a man made measurement and quite relative. I don't believe that the creator's method of tracking time is the same as ours. There is just no way for us to comprehend it as long as we are in human form .
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badolputtytat
Boy! you couldnt just ask a simple question, right? LOL....
Anyway, I suppose provided time is ACTUALLY linear, then the "future" could be predicted. (not that I know of course, but this is another way of seeing it.)
There is a belief that time is not linear... that is, it is not a sequence. That what you call "past" cannot exist. That what you call "future" cannot exist. That there is ONLY "now". Think of it this way to simplify it: Tommorrow actually never comes. Yesterday cannot exist. It is always TODAY, right this very second. and this one... and this one... and so on.
an elder did tell me once that God, is not omnipitent. That "he" cannot see the future. so I suppose that is their general belief.
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setfreefinally
Thanks for your replies. If I remember correctly AlanF had made some comments on this subject and I cant for the life of me find it now. Many claim that the only way God can foresee the future is that he exists outside of time and we are at a moving intersection on a time line. He had written something that showed that this line of reasoning didnt wash.
Maybe AlanF could make a comment if he wishes.
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AlanF
Hi setfreefinally,
This subject often comes up in religious discussions. I don't care much for getting into a religious discussion, but a few basic logical arguments show that if God can predict the future with 100% accuracy, then no free will exists and God must exist outside "time".
For anyone to be able to predict the future with 100% accuracy -- and I mean 100%, not 99.99999999.......% -- there must of necessity exist a static "structure" of "time" (or "spacetime" if you like). Quantum mechanics teaches us that we can make predictions only up to a certain degree of confidence, because of the inherent structure of the universe, i.e., the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle limits our knowledge. If a superior being could somehow get around this, therefore, he must of necessity exist outside the realm where the physics of our universe applies. Since General Relativity indicates that space and time are tightly bound into some sort of a hyper-structure, this "God" must exist outside of it or any other spacetime structure we might envision.
If a static spacetime structure exists, then it follows that the sequence of events (i.e. time) contained within it must have been completely determined at the "instant" of its creation. But if the sequence of events through all time is completely determined by a static structure, then there is no "choice" at any instant -- only an outworking of a predetermined sequence of events. Thus, free will would be a mere illusion, and predestination would exist.
I hope this gives you a flavor of the issues you're interested in.
AlanF
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truthseeker1
Well, if a being is all powerful, then he can "predict" the future by making the circumstances as such where that would occure. lets say he knows when all of us die because he causes the circumstances that bring upon death. He can cause a car accident, predict the exact time a person gets pregnant, etc.
If you have seen the matrix reloaded, it comes down to control. If something controlls our inner instincts, and knows exactly how we would react in any given situation, he can predict the future because he causes the future.
Just a passing thought.
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Francois
I don't believe the question has been properly put. Let's play a variant of Jeopardy. Here's the answer.
God has no location in space and exists outside of time.
Thus God can exist nowhere IN time.
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primitivegenius
nice deep thoughts there alanF i enjoyed the read
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logansrun
A couple thoughts:
It seems that any idea of "God" would have to include the thought that He/She/It exists outside of time. Otherwise, God would have a beginning since space/time also has a beginning.
This being the case, I don't know if it is possible for "God" to be a personal God. Personality requires experiences, interaction and learning. Anything outside of time would not have any of that.
Whether a "Supreme Being" exists or not, I'm not convinced at all that we actually have "free will." I don't think it is logically possible for a completely free volition to exist.
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Guest 77
Are you asking if God can exist outside of himself? Does time control God or is God time?
Guest 77