Posts by joe134cd

109

Why disfellowship must be eliminated for the survival of the WT itself

by TheScientist in

this topic i digress about why the watchtower relaxing the rules of disfellowship is essential for its survival.

many things i'm going to say are not my ideas, some are, the point is, i'm condensing everything in a logical and concise way.. the first thing we have to keep in mind is that the wt's main objective in instituting disfellowship has always been not to lose members because of the damage that a dissident could do, or to avoid gaining new members because of the bad reputation of a confessed sinner in the his/her region.

in the end, the more active members, the more money to the coffers.. in this case of disfellowship due to apostasy, to avoid any spark, texts were sought out of context that even prohibited saying "hi".

joe134cd

A JW that doesn't go to the KH and don't give money to WT, is the same than nothing for the WT.

TheScientist: That comment could be true as well. But what I am trying to say. If there is a growing population of PIMOs in the org. They are certainly not identifying as such, when given the opportunity to do so, in the census. For example, say in the next census there was a sudden 50% disparity between the 2 figures. This could suggest a PIMO presence. This just hasn’t happened. In my local area I can think of 15 ex-JWs who wouldn't write JW in the religious identification section, and that includes me. Yet the census figures still hovers a bit below the x2 figure reported by Wt. Have you watched that link I posted. I think you could benefit from it.

109

Why disfellowship must be eliminated for the survival of the WT itself

by TheScientist in

this topic i digress about why the watchtower relaxing the rules of disfellowship is essential for its survival.

many things i'm going to say are not my ideas, some are, the point is, i'm condensing everything in a logical and concise way.. the first thing we have to keep in mind is that the wt's main objective in instituting disfellowship has always been not to lose members because of the damage that a dissident could do, or to avoid gaining new members because of the bad reputation of a confessed sinner in the his/her region.

in the end, the more active members, the more money to the coffers.. in this case of disfellowship due to apostasy, to avoid any spark, texts were sought out of context that even prohibited saying "hi".

joe134cd

I’m really in two minds about the state of Wt at the moment. True, the demographic is elderly people, and KH are empty. I do believe they are flat lining at the moment and decline is on the horizon. But, like slim suggested, this doesn’t seem to be the case with census figures, where wt has little to no control concerning religious affiliation. Both in my country and link that I previously posted the census figures compared to Wt would blow any religion out the door concerning truthfulness. Over the years, for the country that I live in, the number of people identifying as JWs in the census has dropped, where as Wt reporting has stayed constant. This to me suggests a change in dynamic to the people leaving. Leaving because they have got better things to do on a Sunday morning, but still identify as a JW. Verses those who leave because of indifference to the religion, hence not identifying. This statistical change, however is somewhat marginal. My argument here is, if there is this growing population of PIMOs in the org, they are certainly not identify as such, when given the freedom to do so in the census.

Over the years the census has always been twice that reported by Wt. Although there has been a slight shift between the two figures in recent years. Not enough, in my opinion, for wt to be concerned.

37

My grandmother called my mother

by Anony Mous in

so, i’m just posting this as a warning to lurking jws.

if you’re still on the fence, here is a story.. my grandmother, now in her 80s hasn’t talked to anyone in the family for over 20 years ever since my mother was the last one of her children that left ‘the truth’, she had sent my mother a card to never talk to her again.

so here we are 21 years later, she gets a call out of the blue that she needed help, she hadn’t been able to get into her kitchen.

joe134cd

I had a very similar situation concerning a Great Aunt. Lived and breathed JWisim. I remember asking the care nurse at the rest home, when visiting my Aunt, about the visitors. The comment the nurse gave me will stay with me forever, “once dementia sets in they are largely forgotten about.”

109

Why disfellowship must be eliminated for the survival of the WT itself

by TheScientist in

this topic i digress about why the watchtower relaxing the rules of disfellowship is essential for its survival.

many things i'm going to say are not my ideas, some are, the point is, i'm condensing everything in a logical and concise way.. the first thing we have to keep in mind is that the wt's main objective in instituting disfellowship has always been not to lose members because of the damage that a dissident could do, or to avoid gaining new members because of the bad reputation of a confessed sinner in the his/her region.

in the end, the more active members, the more money to the coffers.. in this case of disfellowship due to apostasy, to avoid any spark, texts were sought out of context that even prohibited saying "hi".

joe134cd

To stop the shunning would mean getting sued out of existence. Just not an economically viable option.

109

Why disfellowship must be eliminated for the survival of the WT itself

by TheScientist in

this topic i digress about why the watchtower relaxing the rules of disfellowship is essential for its survival.

many things i'm going to say are not my ideas, some are, the point is, i'm condensing everything in a logical and concise way.. the first thing we have to keep in mind is that the wt's main objective in instituting disfellowship has always been not to lose members because of the damage that a dissident could do, or to avoid gaining new members because of the bad reputation of a confessed sinner in the his/her region.

in the end, the more active members, the more money to the coffers.. in this case of disfellowship due to apostasy, to avoid any spark, texts were sought out of context that even prohibited saying "hi".

joe134cd

I agree that the JW demographic consists of mainly elderly people, for two reasons.

(1) I heard from an orthodox PIMI relative the other day that she had attended 25 funerals in the last 12 weeks. The are dropping like flies.

(2) Before I physically left the JWs, I had the, uh-hum, privilege of counting the meeting attendance. 2/3 of those in the hall were 50+. This was almost 11 years ago. Another thing I noticed, both in the hall, and at bigger functions, were the sparing amount of 18-30 year olds. Very slim pickings indeed. It also makes me wonder about the genetic pool of potential mates. Due to the strict rules on marriage choices and sex.

I had a JW relative get married recently. To be honest other than the religion, they are 2 people who never should have got together. I think if they hadn’t of been JW, the whole thing would have fizzled out with been boyfriend/girlfriend. I noticed at a family function I attended that they were sitting at opposite ends the room. The father in law, although he watches what he says, isn’t too impressed with his new daughter in law. But then again, with that kind of environment, and choices, what do you expect.

109

Why disfellowship must be eliminated for the survival of the WT itself

by TheScientist in

this topic i digress about why the watchtower relaxing the rules of disfellowship is essential for its survival.

many things i'm going to say are not my ideas, some are, the point is, i'm condensing everything in a logical and concise way.. the first thing we have to keep in mind is that the wt's main objective in instituting disfellowship has always been not to lose members because of the damage that a dissident could do, or to avoid gaining new members because of the bad reputation of a confessed sinner in the his/her region.

in the end, the more active members, the more money to the coffers.. in this case of disfellowship due to apostasy, to avoid any spark, texts were sought out of context that even prohibited saying "hi".

joe134cd

“Things could be worse than they let on.”

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/4801405261447168/comparison-between-jws-lds-sda-mexico

This may help answer that question about the truthfulness of wt reporting methods. Like slim said, it’s when you start comparing other groups, that are similar to Wt, that you realise how well and truthful they are.

Speaking for my own country. Which could be described as a wealthy western country. The census figure has always been, and still is presently, twice that reported by Wt. I’ve heard similar reports anecdotally as well. Interestingly though, I will say, that over the years there has been a slight decrease in the census figure. I explain this in terms of the people leaving the religion, are now not leaving because they can’t be bothered going, but still identify as a jw in the census. But leave because they disagree with the doctrine or the JW culture, hence they don’t identify in the censes. I think the dynamics in people leaving has changed, due to availability of information. However that been said the figure is still roughly twice that of wt.

266

Where is Tony?

by Athanasius in

jw
friends

on february 22, 2023, anthony morris iii was officially removed from the governing body of jehovah's witnesses.

a few months later it was revealed that the watchtower bought him a house in lumberton, north carolina.. however, and correct me if i am wrong, since leaving the gb nobody has reported seeing tony attending jw meetings or participating in field service.

in fact nobody has reported seeing him anywhere, not even at a local liquor store.

joe134cd

I’ve said this before. I’m surprised they placed him in the house they did. You virtually can get access to his front door. That guy needs better security, and a gated community would have been far more appropriate. It not only guarantees his safety, but makes it more difficult for someone to take a photo of him in an unfavourable situation. I don’t think the guy has kicked the booze.

38

The elders came calling. 😹

by MissDaSilva in

jw
friends

this afternoon just after lunch.

i spotted 2 of the nicer elders in the congregation walking up the drive.

i didn’t answer the door.

joe134cd

Desirousofchange = It’s kind of hard to explain my exit from the JW’s. I have spoken of this quite often in previous posts over the years. The best description I could give is been up set that you weren’t invited to party that you didn’t want to go to in the fist place. Don’t get me wrong, elders were the last people I wanted to talk to while transitioning from PIMO to POMO. I’m convinced, had I of, I would have been DFed as an apostate. But after a consistent effort to the cult over 4 decades, it would have been nice to have known that I was given some thought. That’s why I’m thankful my exit was reasonably stress free, compared to other experiences I hear of. So far I’ve never even been close to 2 elders knocking on my door and I’ve had girlfriends who I’ve been spotted with. So much for going after the lost sheep,

It confuses me really. How an organisation that is so HELL BENT! on recruiting members. Spending (allegedly) billions of hours recruiting, and yet it dose so little to keep its existing members. I went to a sales meeting the other day and the speaker made an interesting comment, “it takes 5 times more effort and money to get a new customer than what it takes to keep an existing customer happy.” Wt could learn from this.

38

The elders came calling. 😹

by MissDaSilva in

jw
friends

this afternoon just after lunch.

i spotted 2 of the nicer elders in the congregation walking up the drive.

i didn’t answer the door.

joe134cd

Just to carry on from my previous post. For me fading was the best. When my last remaining PIMI JW parent dies, then perhaps DAing with my middle finger up to them may be an option. Though, due to the time that I have been out. I don’t think this will happen as I can’t see what it will accomplish. But it is still a card I can pull if I so decide to. F*#k you watchtower, you really annoy me.

38

The elders came calling. 😹

by MissDaSilva in

jw
friends

this afternoon just after lunch.

i spotted 2 of the nicer elders in the congregation walking up the drive.

i didn’t answer the door.

joe134cd

Tbh I’m not a big fan of leaving with a JC. Recently I had a close JW relative die, who I had cared for. I was thinking how much smoother things were. It allowed for me to organise the funeral, the hall, person to give service with no trouble. I was very pleased with how things went, and to be fair I really didn’t have to do anything with regard to catering or cleaning up, for which I was most grateful. Mind you this relative probably would have done the same for someone else.

Regarding my fade, and I’m approaching my 11 year since I last attended a formal meeting. My experience was quite different to most. As I heard absolutely nothing from any elder. To the point of, I don’t know weather I take their lack of interest as an insult, or as a blessing, as I allowed me to slip out the back door with pretty much no effort. At the time I really didn’t want to deal with elders, and had I of, i probably would have been DFed for apostasy.

Despite my personal views on this cult. I still interact with them if I see them on the street etc. although I do realise this is on the condition of keeping my mouth shut. Hey, they are happy with them been them, and I’m happy with me been me. So let’s find a middle ground where we are both happy.