joe134cd

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Posts by joe134cd

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  3

  Joe134cd attends a Jewish Synagogue

  by joe134cd in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  ok just reviewing my sabbath attendance at a jewish synagogue.

  the service was 95% in hebrew.

  i think the observation that jesus made about them been more concerned about the traditions of man than the word of god, still stands true to this day.

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  joe134cd

  Yes it was pleasant. I think this one was Orthodox.
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  3

  Joe134cd attends a Jewish Synagogue

  by joe134cd in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  ok just reviewing my sabbath attendance at a jewish synagogue.

  the service was 95% in hebrew.

  i think the observation that jesus made about them been more concerned about the traditions of man than the word of god, still stands true to this day.

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  joe134cd

  Ok just reviewing my Sabbath attendance at a Jewish Synagogue.

  The service was 95% in Hebrew. I think the observation that Jesus made about them been more concerned about the traditions of man than the word of God, still stands true to this day. It was documented even the steps forward and backwards to take. There were certainly commonalities with Christianity, which could be expected. Christian’s, particularly Catholics, kiss and touch the cross, Jews touch and kiss the Torah, when it is brought out of the ark of the covenant and brought around members of the congregation. Jews will have 2 names, a secular one, and a Hebrew one which is used in the Synagogue. Catholics have a baptismal name on your acceptance into the church.

  From my observation I fear that the Jewish faith may be fearing worse than the JWs. The service was very poorly attended. This synagogue was in a major metropolitan area. That been said there would have been 40 in attendance. Average age of 60. There was only one person there under the age of 30. I fear that unless something is done very quickly this community may die out. This concern was also raised with me by one of the parishioners. So that’s the main things that stood out to me.
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  37

  My grandmother called my mother

  by Anony Mous in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  so, i’m just posting this as a warning to lurking jws.

  if you’re still on the fence, here is a story.. my grandmother, now in her 80s hasn’t talked to anyone in the family for over 20 years ever since my mother was the last one of her children that left ‘the truth’, she had sent my mother a card to never talk to her again.

  so here we are 21 years later, she gets a call out of the blue that she needed help, she hadn’t been able to get into her kitchen.

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  joe134cd

  What amazes me is an organisation that spends billions, of so called, hours recruiting people, with little to no results. Yet dose so little to retain and maintain its existing membership. Often times this membership is a captive one.
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  109

  Why disfellowship must be eliminated for the survival of the WT itself

  by TheScientist in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this topic i digress about why the watchtower relaxing the rules of disfellowship is essential for its survival.

  many things i'm going to say are not my ideas, some are, the point is, i'm condensing everything in a logical and concise way.. the first thing we have to keep in mind is that the wt's main objective in instituting disfellowship has always been not to lose members because of the damage that a dissident could do, or to avoid gaining new members because of the bad reputation of a confessed sinner in the his/her region.

  in the end, the more active members, the more money to the coffers.. in this case of disfellowship due to apostasy, to avoid any spark, texts were sought out of context that even prohibited saying "hi".

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  joe134cd

  MeanMrMustard: I have a feeling the actual number of true, long term funders and believers is a lot lower.

  This could be true as well. What ever the case. In my country these people are not choosing to identify as such, when given the freedom to do so, in the census.
  
  

  I do believe that the LDS and JWs problems are quite different. The LDS will probably run out of members before it runs out of money. However, the JWs will probably run out of money before it runs out of members. By what of seen in the ExMo community, I do believe the JWs could have a higher activity rate, and a bigger membership than the LDS. I don’t think there would be much in it, maybe a couple of million or so.
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  109

  Why disfellowship must be eliminated for the survival of the WT itself

  by TheScientist in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this topic i digress about why the watchtower relaxing the rules of disfellowship is essential for its survival.

  many things i'm going to say are not my ideas, some are, the point is, i'm condensing everything in a logical and concise way.. the first thing we have to keep in mind is that the wt's main objective in instituting disfellowship has always been not to lose members because of the damage that a dissident could do, or to avoid gaining new members because of the bad reputation of a confessed sinner in the his/her region.

  in the end, the more active members, the more money to the coffers.. in this case of disfellowship due to apostasy, to avoid any spark, texts were sought out of context that even prohibited saying "hi".

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  joe134cd

  A JW that doesn't go to the KH and don't give money to WT, is the same than nothing for the WT.
  

  TheScientist: That comment could be true as well. But what I am trying to say. If there is a growing population of PIMOs in the org. They are certainly not identifying as such, when given the opportunity to do so, in the census. For example, say in the next census there was a sudden 50% disparity between the 2 figures. This could suggest a PIMO presence. This just hasn’t happened. In my local area I can think of 15 ex-JWs who wouldn't write JW in the religious identification section, and that includes me. Yet the census figures still hovers a bit below the x2 figure reported by Wt. Have you watched that link I posted. I think you could benefit from it.
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  109

  Why disfellowship must be eliminated for the survival of the WT itself

  by TheScientist in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this topic i digress about why the watchtower relaxing the rules of disfellowship is essential for its survival.

  many things i'm going to say are not my ideas, some are, the point is, i'm condensing everything in a logical and concise way.. the first thing we have to keep in mind is that the wt's main objective in instituting disfellowship has always been not to lose members because of the damage that a dissident could do, or to avoid gaining new members because of the bad reputation of a confessed sinner in the his/her region.

  in the end, the more active members, the more money to the coffers.. in this case of disfellowship due to apostasy, to avoid any spark, texts were sought out of context that even prohibited saying "hi".

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  joe134cd

  I’m really in two minds about the state of Wt at the moment. True, the demographic is elderly people, and KH are empty. I do believe they are flat lining at the moment and decline is on the horizon. But, like slim suggested, this doesn’t seem to be the case with census figures, where wt has little to no control concerning religious affiliation. Both in my country and link that I previously posted the census figures compared to Wt would blow any religion out the door concerning truthfulness. Over the years, for the country that I live in, the number of people identifying as JWs in the census has dropped, where as Wt reporting has stayed constant. This to me suggests a change in dynamic to the people leaving. Leaving because they have got better things to do on a Sunday morning, but still identify as a JW. Verses those who leave because of indifference to the religion, hence not identifying. This statistical change, however is somewhat marginal. My argument here is, if there is this growing population of PIMOs in the org, they are certainly not identify as such, when given the freedom to do so in the census.

  Over the years the census has always been twice that reported by Wt. Although there has been a slight shift between the two figures in recent years. Not enough, in my opinion, for wt to be concerned.
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  37

  My grandmother called my mother

  by Anony Mous in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  so, i’m just posting this as a warning to lurking jws.

  if you’re still on the fence, here is a story.. my grandmother, now in her 80s hasn’t talked to anyone in the family for over 20 years ever since my mother was the last one of her children that left ‘the truth’, she had sent my mother a card to never talk to her again.

  so here we are 21 years later, she gets a call out of the blue that she needed help, she hadn’t been able to get into her kitchen.

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  joe134cd

  I had a very similar situation concerning a Great Aunt. Lived and breathed JWisim. I remember asking the care nurse at the rest home, when visiting my Aunt, about the visitors. The comment the nurse gave me will stay with me forever, “once dementia sets in they are largely forgotten about.”
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  109

  Why disfellowship must be eliminated for the survival of the WT itself

  by TheScientist in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this topic i digress about why the watchtower relaxing the rules of disfellowship is essential for its survival.

  many things i'm going to say are not my ideas, some are, the point is, i'm condensing everything in a logical and concise way.. the first thing we have to keep in mind is that the wt's main objective in instituting disfellowship has always been not to lose members because of the damage that a dissident could do, or to avoid gaining new members because of the bad reputation of a confessed sinner in the his/her region.

  in the end, the more active members, the more money to the coffers.. in this case of disfellowship due to apostasy, to avoid any spark, texts were sought out of context that even prohibited saying "hi".

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  joe134cd

  To stop the shunning would mean getting sued out of existence. Just not an economically viable option.
• 
  109

  Why disfellowship must be eliminated for the survival of the WT itself

  by TheScientist in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this topic i digress about why the watchtower relaxing the rules of disfellowship is essential for its survival.

  many things i'm going to say are not my ideas, some are, the point is, i'm condensing everything in a logical and concise way.. the first thing we have to keep in mind is that the wt's main objective in instituting disfellowship has always been not to lose members because of the damage that a dissident could do, or to avoid gaining new members because of the bad reputation of a confessed sinner in the his/her region.

  in the end, the more active members, the more money to the coffers.. in this case of disfellowship due to apostasy, to avoid any spark, texts were sought out of context that even prohibited saying "hi".

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  joe134cd

  I agree that the JW demographic consists of mainly elderly people, for two reasons.

  (1) I heard from an orthodox PIMI relative the other day that she had attended 25 funerals in the last 12 weeks. The are dropping like flies.

  (2) Before I physically left the JWs, I had the, uh-hum, privilege of counting the meeting attendance. 2/3 of those in the hall were 50+. This was almost 11 years ago. Another thing I noticed, both in the hall, and at bigger functions, were the sparing amount of 18-30 year olds. Very slim pickings indeed. It also makes me wonder about the genetic pool of potential mates. Due to the strict rules on marriage choices and sex.

  I had a JW relative get married recently. To be honest other than the religion, they are 2 people who never should have got together. I think if they hadn’t of been JW, the whole thing would have fizzled out with been boyfriend/girlfriend. I noticed at a family function I attended that they were sitting at opposite ends the room. The father in law, although he watches what he says, isn’t too impressed with his new daughter in law. But then again, with that kind of environment, and choices, what do you expect.
• 
  109

  Why disfellowship must be eliminated for the survival of the WT itself

  by TheScientist in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this topic i digress about why the watchtower relaxing the rules of disfellowship is essential for its survival.

  many things i'm going to say are not my ideas, some are, the point is, i'm condensing everything in a logical and concise way.. the first thing we have to keep in mind is that the wt's main objective in instituting disfellowship has always been not to lose members because of the damage that a dissident could do, or to avoid gaining new members because of the bad reputation of a confessed sinner in the his/her region.

  in the end, the more active members, the more money to the coffers.. in this case of disfellowship due to apostasy, to avoid any spark, texts were sought out of context that even prohibited saying "hi".

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  joe134cd

  “Things could be worse than they let on.”

  https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/4801405261447168/comparison-between-jws-lds-sda-mexico
  

  This may help answer that question about the truthfulness of wt reporting methods. Like slim said, it’s when you start comparing other groups, that are similar to Wt, that you realise how well and truthful they are.

  Speaking for my own country. Which could be described as a wealthy western country. The census figure has always been, and still is presently, twice that reported by Wt. I’ve heard similar reports anecdotally as well. Interestingly though, I will say, that over the years there has been a slight decrease in the census figure. I explain this in terms of the people leaving the religion, are now not leaving because they can’t be bothered going, but still identify as a jw in the census. But leave because they disagree with the doctrine or the JW culture, hence they don’t identify in the censes. I think the dynamics in people leaving has changed, due to availability of information. However that been said the figure is still roughly twice that of wt.