Wulf

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Posts by Wulf

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  59

  The Governing Body scenario is nearly identical to that in 1977 - no power

  by Dogpatch in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the watchtower perposely keeps its leaders "cordoned off" for a reason.

  the ones really in charge want to be invisible and have been in control since knorr's day, and still think like him.

  the gb want like hell to be visible and powerful.

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  Wulf

  @Eden

  The GB didn't have airtight control over doctrinal matters, and neither did the presidency. They commissioned people like Ray Franz and Ed Dunlap to research and write, which caused problems for them. Also if you listen to Ed Dunlap's interview on the net you can see he was directing special elders' schools and doctrinal issues did come up. IMO Ed Dunlap would have been something of a go to guy for the GB on interpretation at times because he was so deep into the organizational teachings (and not in a neurotic Freddie Franz way). He knew his stuff.

  I have no difficulty imagining people calling the shots behind the scene and wielding hidden power to varying extents. This happens in all organizations. But I am genuinely curious as to who Randy is specifically referring to. I can imagine the Adams brothers for example but I want to see who really knows
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  59

  The Governing Body scenario is nearly identical to that in 1977 - no power

  by Dogpatch in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the watchtower perposely keeps its leaders "cordoned off" for a reason.

  the ones really in charge want to be invisible and have been in control since knorr's day, and still think like him.

  the gb want like hell to be visible and powerful.

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  Wulf

  Hi Lois. Thanks!

  Im only 3rd gen. However you could say my family was very zealous. I think that's about as far as I want to go!

  This site has a lot of knowledgeable people and I really appreciate Randy's work. I find it endlessly intriguing.

  I do think what he is claiming here is quite strong and if he (or anyone else) could be explicit about who's currently who behind the scenes then it would make for fascinating reading.
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  59

  The Governing Body scenario is nearly identical to that in 1977 - no power

  by Dogpatch in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the watchtower perposely keeps its leaders "cordoned off" for a reason.

  the ones really in charge want to be invisible and have been in control since knorr's day, and still think like him.

  the gb want like hell to be visible and powerful.

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  Wulf

  Im in a similar position to Metatron. My family knew the old guard.

  Who are the puppetmasters you are referring to exactly? Names?

  Do you mean Don Adams? And who else? Can others corroborate this? This is a genuinely interesting topic but I wish there were more specifics.
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  32

  How IGNORANT can you be and still be a Jehovah's Witness in GOOD standing?

  by Terry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as i have said many times, i did not really study jw teachings in depth until i went to prison.. i had a period from 1959 to 1967 when i---sort of----could explain things to a shallow depth.

  once i entered that profound place in my head (while in federal prison) when everything got serious.....i entered a secret room, so to speak, where.

  all the mysteries were hidden!.

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  Wulf

  I've come to several conclusions.

  Being a JW is a lifestyle first and foremost. The esoteric doctrine and theology which gets thrown around and which is so hard to fathom for people "outside" is not that big of a concern for JWs in some ways, which may seem somewhat counterintuitive to us given its emphasis in their literature. Many are quite happy to go with the flow and be considered a JW according to the core practices as defined by the WTBS (field service, meeting attendence, no part of the world etc). Some of these essential practices are corporate in nature and not necessarily religious. There is this strange tension between the WTS as a corporation and the JWs as a religion, given that the two are so tightly intertwined.

  They are not interested in launching an in depth investigation of their own religion. And even those who know their stuff relatively well and a bit of the history (quite rare indeed) are not interested in any kind of profound analysis of the JWs which might lead to any reflections which are not religiously approving of the org. They have very little frame of reference.

  They will not get into any sorts of analysis of the politics behind doctrines or power struggles either in the present or the past. I think most are not even aware of looking through that kind of lens at the org. It would be totally foreign to them.

  I also found that witness perceptions of themselves and their organisation are often conditioned by their daily reality, their routines at the kingdom hall etc. Many have no clue of the how the higher levels of the org function, or any sort of complete understanding of how the whole power structure functions in reality.

  In a sense, it almost pays to be ignorant to be in good standing. Otherwise, if you really knew how things went down both in the present and in the past, ie. the power struggles, the connection of doctrine development to specific individuals, the duplicitousness and carelessness, the wackiness of it all, how could you be a true believer? You would need a critical sense to begin with to be able to analyse the org in the this way, which is not what they want.

  How can an organisation which abhors higher education and is suspicious of scholarship produce a disinterested account of themselves? It's ironic but they do not know even know who they are, and it's by design. I've always thought it would take intelligent ex JWs to write a decent history of the JWs.
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  79

  BUILD IT AND THEY WILL COME.....let's rebuild!

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  okay we've all beat our chest, lamented and throttled the dead horse of aawa.. time to move on!.

  i suggest those of us on j-w.n who care about creating something the right way take the trouble to get the framework going.. let's do the grunt work and get the nattering, debates, naming and organizing already pre-approved so that "others" who have the talent, ability, motivation and resources can move in and turn the key!.

  because it was not done before.. there is more wisdom on this discussion board in our vast numbers than there could possibly be in a virtual boardroom with 8 people brain-storming.. that isn't an insult--it is just a statistical fact!.

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  Wulf

  One thing I voiced on Terry's Hayden Covington thread which is not exactly activism but I will repeat it here, because there are people on this site with this kind of knowledge. I would love to see a scholarly, detailed and contextualised secular history of the power brokers of the WTBS, the political infighting and the resulting connections to JW doctrine. This sort of thing would one devastating way of attacking the WTBS, because they are not prepared to discuss or reveal their own (political) history. Knowledge is power, and ultimately constructing coherent narratives of the WTBS's functionings with genuine rigour would be a nightmare for them, a contribution to the history of religion and just plain interesting reading for the intellectually curious. Terry's Hayden Covington thread is a good example of where this kind of writing could go.

  It would be a longterm project, obviously. Maybe just wishful thinking on my part, but I believe the potential is there.
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  78

  Another Lie/Revisionist History in todays WT study!!

  by BU2B in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i caught yet another revisionist history deception in todays wt lesson.. .

  here is a quote from paragraph 4 of the 2/15/13 study edition.

  "decades before 1914, jehovah's worshippers declared to the nations that the end of "the appointed times of the nations" would come in that year and that the world would enter into an unequaled period of trouble.".

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  Wulf

  @reslight2

  Bismarck said everything was going to hell in a handbasket after he died, and he was the architect of realpolitik (all those secret treaties).
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  78

  Another Lie/Revisionist History in todays WT study!!

  by BU2B in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i caught yet another revisionist history deception in todays wt lesson.. .

  here is a quote from paragraph 4 of the 2/15/13 study edition.

  "decades before 1914, jehovah's worshippers declared to the nations that the end of "the appointed times of the nations" would come in that year and that the world would enter into an unequaled period of trouble.".

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  Wulf

  Wow it's quite interesting to read a Bible Student well versed in Russell etc (@reslight2). Never thought I would be doing that! It's interesting to see the diversity from which the JWs sprang. This is a great little website.
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  66

  Hayden Covington's unwitting role in harsh disfellowship policy

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in the january 8, 1947 awake!

  magazine the following article appeared.. .

  the above article was published under the watchtower presidency of nathan knorr.

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  Wulf

  Kudos Terry. Let me say a personal thank you for this thread. I was speechless after reading it. A whole childhood and adolescence of being surrounded by gilead missionaries, bethelites, zone, circuit and district overseers, GB, strong people "in the truth", which I had left behind, flashed before my eyes.

  I always knew the JWs were crazy, but I didn't know there were people of conscience who took a stand against the organisation and were able to analyse it at such a high intellectual level. That I can now see on this thread. It seems like I waited half my life for it!

  I do think we should be collecting these JW first hand accounts and compiling them, many of them from oldtimers who might not be around much longer. There really should be a definitive history of the JWs put together.
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  66

  Hayden Covington's unwitting role in harsh disfellowship policy

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in the january 8, 1947 awake!

  magazine the following article appeared.. .

  the above article was published under the watchtower presidency of nathan knorr.

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  Wulf

  Hi Phizzy!

  True it would be a specialist market but then all academic writing pretty much is. A good secular account of the JWs would be a valuable addition to the history of religion and go into the details of personalities and doctrine development in my opinion, while also taking a critical stance towards them. A minor iconic American (and Global?) religion deserves this kind of examination and record, and certainly I think our shared experiences could make for interesting reading.

  I agree having a best of (secular) WT History thread forum would be a great idea, something better than the WTBS could ever do! This type of close, contextualised historical examination ends up being devastating for them.
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  66

  Hayden Covington's unwitting role in harsh disfellowship policy

  by Terry in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  in the january 8, 1947 awake!

  magazine the following article appeared.. .

  the above article was published under the watchtower presidency of nathan knorr.

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  Wulf

  Apologies for bumping this thread but it is amazing reading!

  After 3 decades and a half of life, half of which was spent being raised in a zealous JW family, I don't think I have ever seen such a cogent discussion of JWs as in this thread. The article posted is unbelievable! And the discussion is priceless. Thank you! I had to sign up just to say this.

  Some of you should write a book of JW history. I've toyed with the idea myself at times but there is so much I don't know regarding the politics of the organisation. Hayden Covington is definitely one of the more interesting individuals.

  It seems to me there are different foci when it comes to JW history as well. Obviously Ray Franz and the surrounding era gets a lot of attention, but then we have earlier eras like Covington's as well. Somehow secular JW history buffs need to integrate all of this into a grand narrative. It would be rather ironic to have a comprehensive and well done secular account of JW history written by ex-JWs. We are the only ones who could do it!