several weeks ago the issue of god's 'perfect nature' came up on a thread.
the concept of "perfection" is a persistent in vitually all faith traditions and theological constructs.. jws in particular, have an obsession with the concept of perfection and use it regularly in their propaganda: "live forever in a perfect paradise earth"; "live forever in perfect health"; "humans and animals will live together in perfect harmony", etc etc...... the point was raised about the possibility or impossibility of god being perfect.
if we begin with the basic judaeo-christian tenet that god created the universe from nothingness, then he is the designer and creator of every single entity, sentient or non-sentient, and object within reality.
Perhaps there is That without beginning, and without end. Absolutely infinite, it embraces all -- from what we would judge the most good, to the most vile -- unconditionally.
So then it seems, the endless expression of life and universe is as it should be, and all is perfect in that there is nothing ether good or bad, only thinking makes it so.
j
i dare to say science and religion are two different animals.
they may try to explain similar things but in different ways.
i don't believe man will ever live without either religion or science nor would i want us too.
No MQ, I have no religion or belief system.
Yes, RAF, there are other cultures more open to this. The western mind is often more narrowly scientific and rational than others. However, I don't really see this as a problem if one takes it to its limits and becomes a radical realist and performs the deepest of scientific investigations.
If we place the dynamics of our mind under the sober scrutinizing light of silent awareness, the mind can be observed as it frantically weaves its concepts and ideas into a facsimile of "reality" and "self". It can be clearly seen that nothing the mind presents as "self" (and that "self's" relationship to the rest of the universe) is the actual, real truth of what IS. It's all just a story. It can also be clearly seen that the pristine clarity of the observing consciousness which is undertaking the acute examination is closer than the story and undeniably most immediate and real. Here, what is real begins to shift position into the forefront, and what is not moves to the rear.
What's left is to delve deeper into awareness, with acute conscious-awareness, our guiding light simply being to believe nothing and the desire to find what is unquestionably real and true. What am I, really??? Why the western mind sees this as illogical mysticism, makes no sense to me. It's just the opposite. It's questioning everything, believing nothing, and accepting only a meeting with raw reality -- first hand.
When we allow awareness to move outside the cave of the mind, and meet and realize actuality, it's utterly impossible to go back in and explain it to people still chained there. They will perceive you as a fool. I'm happy to be the fool.
j
i dare to say science and religion are two different animals.
they may try to explain similar things but in different ways.
i don't believe man will ever live without either religion or science nor would i want us too.
MQ, I meant no insult. Every thought and word ever uttered is simply an interpretation of the limited little mind. Not just yours. Mine as well.
As you suggest Kid-A, there can be nothing known as it actually is, via the mind, as all the mind can offer is interpretation. Your interpretation is: "there IS no reality beyond the universe created within our cortex and therefore, no possibility of perceiving an object in its true, unfiltered essence. We are nothing more than the sum total of our neuronal networks which can distort or accurately encode incoming sensory information depending upon the emotional and/or motivational context of said event. I would challenge JT to provide one example of this unfiltered, pure reality he purports to have access to."
It's clear you know the mind can not perceive actual truth; yet you allow it to make bold all-knowing statements as if it can.
Can consciousness, which silently witnesses all the minds interpretation, actually see beyond the minds limitations and meet with and realize the actual TRUTH? Not as an unknowable object, but rather as Its own true Self? Those who have seen, say indeed it can be realized because the ultimate truth is what we naturally and really are. It's no big deal. But, you must see it first hand for yourself. I can not give you what you truly are; and I can not via the mind's words and thoughts express it. All attempts making me simply look the fool.
I am only saying you are far more than you THINK you are. At best I can only entice people to investigate acutely into their most immediate and intimate sense of being and existing to see if there is more that can be seen. I'm not asking anyone to believe anything I say. Beliefs are only the minds interpretation. Nothing I have ever said is the Truth.
j
..i speak to my mother about any type of current event she tells me how the end of the world is coming.
she always says that people do not care for one another anymore and tells me that is how the end has been described as b eing.
it is driveing me crazy!!
Your dear mother has been feeding on stories for so long that she has lost touch with reality.
Love her. Be there for her. She is unaware that she sees though the eyes of religious insanity.
It's very sad.
j
i dare to say science and religion are two different animals.
they may try to explain similar things but in different ways.
i don't believe man will ever live without either religion or science nor would i want us too.
James, "so in a way, whichever we choose," it's not the same. Our choices determing our future.
Choosing ignorance or superstition over knowledge and science is definitely NOT the same in any way, shape or form. Otherwise, we would all still live in the Dark Ages.
Yes, I understand what you are saying. I am not at all religious and choose science over religion in practical day to day existence. I find it far more interesting. However, what I was attempting to point to is bigger: the REALITY which exists no matter which filters we see through, be they religious or scientific. There is a REALITY that does nor require or need our meager religious or scientific mental constructs and paradigms. It is as it IS; and it can be met with and realized when the mind is silent of its renderings and facsimiles.
Certainly MQ, you must have some sense of a genuine reality other than the abstract concepts fluttering about in your little mind.
j
i dare to say science and religion are two different animals.
they may try to explain similar things but in different ways.
i don't believe man will ever live without either religion or science nor would i want us too.
Both religion and science are just different ways in which the mind attempts to explain or define the essential qualities of reality. However, as beliefs in a god are not God, and theories regarding a tree are not a tree, the mind's activity actually hides the reality we seek. So, in a way, which ever we choose -- it's the same.
There is another way.
j
my born again neighbor keeps talking about a small voice that he and those in his church hear.
a poster here also mentioned it:.
i let my "little voice" inside tell me yes, do it or no dont....so far since i accepted the real truth (1989) has not led me astray i believe that is the holy spirit> that little voice -because the bible says the holy spirit will teach you all things....i am still learning but it is wonderful to know i am saved by grace no works,,,,,,,,just faith.. can any born again christians here clarify this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia
Schizophrenia (from the Greek word s????f???e?a, or shjzofre'neja, meaning "split mind") is a psychiatric diagnosis that describes a mental disorder characterized by impairments in the perception or expression of reality and by significant social or occupational dysfunction. A person experiencing schizophrenia is typically characterized as demonstrating disorganized thinking, and as experiencing delusions or hallucinations, in particular auditory hallucinations. [
below are links to a ny times video on the new human origins exhibit at the american museum of natural history, (the one i posted the link about that has been quite an active evolution thread!
) and below that a link to an article in the times on sagan's new book.
warning!
Here is a beautiful quote of Richard Dawkin's regarding Dr. Sagan in comparison to the Bible folks: “He left them behind, because he had so much more to be religious about....they have their Bronze Age myths, medieval superstitions and childish wishful thinking. He had the universe.”
So true and so sad. You can not point to infinity without casting a shadow over peoples cherished little deities. They will only hate you for it. The endless living universe is a testimony against tiny little gods, and a witness for That without beginning and end; little wonder so many keep their heads fearfully buried in their Bibles.
j
edited to change thread title: .
is god's love so wonderful that he will save everyone?
even satan and his dark angels?
A truly all-embracing God has a beautiful ring of truth to it; for certainly the Source and Sustenance of an infinite universe must be greater still.
The next step is to stop limiting the Divine completely, by not reducing it down to something so small as to be absent.
If there truly is That which has no beginning and no end, what does that make you? Just beneath and closer than everything you believe yourself to be, what are you really?
What truly looks out your eyes?
j
does the belief that there is no all-loving diety in which to be accountable to make it easier or harder to treat and judge others they way that you want to be treated and judged?.
since evolution supposes that life and ultimately man who is at the top of the chain got here through a process of the fittest dominating and killing off the weaker, and since most modern evolutionists in democracies no longer think that this is good to practice, how do you deal with the fact that you are a living contradiction of your own belief since you pronounce the same thing both good and bad?
.
Perry:
Hillary-Step,
Who are you to judge God so that I should follow your misdirection and judge Him as you tempt me to do? He is infinite in all respects.
Dear Perry,
Perhaps with a little clearer comprehension of your own words, you wouldn't have to start divisive threads such as this one.
Infinity is all-inclusive; and so One. So then your arguments for separation and duality are erroneous. There is really nothing to defend and protect. Put up your sword.
The problem is you use words like infinite to define your god, when in fact the mental image you prostrate before is so small as to include only you and those of like mind. The rest of us lay abandoned in the huge vastness outside your little deity. The fact is, no one and no thing is abandoned, nor can be. Your disunity which separates you out and makes you so special in your own eyes exists only in your mind and its limited understanding of the Divine.
This is the main reason why religion can be so harmful. It separates us and causes animosity. When in fact, there is no real enemy.
j
