no firestorms please.
but be honest.
do you think that we are of a lower level of intelligence than those who accept evolutionist' theories?.
My feelings are that a heartfelt desire to pay reverence to a Source, is a natural and honorable thing.
However, when we use this desire to engrave a mental image (an invisible god) that divides us into the chosen and the damned, we have stepped from what is honorable, to what is harmful and insane.
j
the wtbts always has meditation as a topic on conventions.
they always state that eastern meditation makes the mind "blank", so this is a no no.. of course we know that it is actually the convention that makes the mind blank :).
so what are your thoughts on meditation now?.
Are you sure you ain't just sweet on me?
No. Never. Not a chance. Highly unlikely. Well, maybe a little.
j
the wtbts always has meditation as a topic on conventions.
they always state that eastern meditation makes the mind "blank", so this is a no no.. of course we know that it is actually the convention that makes the mind blank :).
so what are your thoughts on meditation now?.
Your suposta close your eyes. Not look in a mirror, Gumbo.
I was just thinking about you while having lunch....and here you are. Must be magic.
j
for those of you who espouse the philosophy that one needs to discard who we "think" we are and embrace the "reality" of who we really are, what if, there is a divine purpose to our miniscule existence in the here and now and that purpose is to experience the pull of opposite forces (duality), and you are missing it by not allowing yourself to experience the ego self?
what if you are missing the whole purpose of this pull of pain and joy by trying to suppress it or place yourself outside of it?
the below is a short story sent to me by a friend and it is an example of what i'm inferring.
Coggy:
I guess what I am asking is this, how much of our true self, our true nature, is really just the conditioned physical process of neurons firing in response to stimulation, including the ability to ask this question? We want our lives, ours selves to have greater meaning, greater purpose, greater levels of consciousness, other planes of consciousness, but perhaps the truth of the matter is that we are just a big tube, with three openings and we put dead plants and animals in one end and expel compost from the other. Perhaps all our senses and awareness are only to aid in this purpose and survive. When our senses deteriorate, our ability to consume and expel deteriorates until we finally die. Perhaps all the artificial constructs/beliefs of our minds are just further machinations to aid in our organisms survival. Including the belief in life after death. Our organisms drive to survive is so great that it will even imagine non-existant planes of existence where its conscious awareness will survive death in some way and then spend inordiante amounts of time trying to bring that plane into existence at all costs (ie, religiously motivated wars that kill all who do not share the vision/goal for survival). Wouldn't it be the ultimate irony if our biological organisms drive to survive, is what eventually causes us all to become extinct?
There is a very important and compelling ache behind your questions. Isn't what you are asking, simply : "What am I; really; really; really?" I suggest taking the agony of your earnest and sincere desire to want to know -- within. I have experienced that it is just this hunger that is the vehicle that carries us to undeniable realization of what we seek.
j
for those of you who espouse the philosophy that one needs to discard who we "think" we are and embrace the "reality" of who we really are, what if, there is a divine purpose to our miniscule existence in the here and now and that purpose is to experience the pull of opposite forces (duality), and you are missing it by not allowing yourself to experience the ego self?
what if you are missing the whole purpose of this pull of pain and joy by trying to suppress it or place yourself outside of it?
the below is a short story sent to me by a friend and it is an example of what i'm inferring.
Narkissos:
James,
Is the complex questions and expositions created by the mind, a valid reason to not see for oneself?Did I say that?
Everyone "sees" what they have to "see," everyone then interprets it as they can. And no matter what we have "seen" we can only refer to it (on this board for instance) through interpretations.
If I have learnt something from my religious experience, it is to be particularly wary of interpreters who claim not to interpret.
I agree! Nothing thought or said or posted here is what is being referred to. I often say that all thoughts and words are mere interpritations; and that nothing I say is true; and we need to look for our-selves and see first-hand. Words regarding our "true-being" (or whatever interpretive label we put on it) at best are only an enticement to look and see if there is any valid reality that the words point to. Considering what we have been through with religion, wariness of interpreters is a very healthy thing, yet it does not mean that a sign pointing to Paris is useless because it's not Paris. j
for those of you who espouse the philosophy that one needs to discard who we "think" we are and embrace the "reality" of who we really are, what if, there is a divine purpose to our miniscule existence in the here and now and that purpose is to experience the pull of opposite forces (duality), and you are missing it by not allowing yourself to experience the ego self?
what if you are missing the whole purpose of this pull of pain and joy by trying to suppress it or place yourself outside of it?
the below is a short story sent to me by a friend and it is an example of what i'm inferring.
Journey-on,
To try and understand intellectually what we truly are, is futile. It's a mental exercise that can go on forever, with the only valid outcome being: having no clue.
So, I guess my answer to you, is no answer. You have to see for yourself. Then you tell me.
j
for those of you who espouse the philosophy that one needs to discard who we "think" we are and embrace the "reality" of who we really are, what if, there is a divine purpose to our miniscule existence in the here and now and that purpose is to experience the pull of opposite forces (duality), and you are missing it by not allowing yourself to experience the ego self?
what if you are missing the whole purpose of this pull of pain and joy by trying to suppress it or place yourself outside of it?
the below is a short story sent to me by a friend and it is an example of what i'm inferring.
Narkissos:
Now who/what is observing "that which observes everything" and comes back to tell about it within the constraints of language -- if not a separate, dualistic, language-based mind?
And by calling "It" "Con-sciousness" hasn't this mind sneakingly ascribed "It" its own complex co-gnitive structure, only reversing it as a mirror image (which in this case may imply the denial of complexity, otherness, separateness, antagonism)? If slightly more subtle, is this process, in depth, any less "anthropomorphic" than the old mythmaking by which man made deities after his own image (however equally denying what he disliked in it, i.e. finitude, weakness, transience and mortality) in order to construe himself as the image of a somehow better Other?
Is the complex questions and expositions created by the mind, a valid reason to not see for oneself?
j
for those of you who espouse the philosophy that one needs to discard who we "think" we are and embrace the "reality" of who we really are, what if, there is a divine purpose to our miniscule existence in the here and now and that purpose is to experience the pull of opposite forces (duality), and you are missing it by not allowing yourself to experience the ego self?
what if you are missing the whole purpose of this pull of pain and joy by trying to suppress it or place yourself outside of it?
the below is a short story sent to me by a friend and it is an example of what i'm inferring.
Poppers, your guidance is so clear, warm and graceful as to bring tears to my eyes.
j
what you reward you tend to get more of.. what you punish tends to atrophy.. the balance between a good act and a bad one consists of the consequences.. society has found many ways to treat bad behavior.
the worst being imprisonment and execution (if not torture) for high crimes.. but, there is a core philosophy among altruists and christians of a certain stripe who advocate forgiveness.. so, we ask the question : does forgiveness make any sense?.
when we do harm we cause an effect.. the effect injures others or their property.. to restore what is harmed a system of justice has developed to deal with administering the pressure toward restoration (when possible).. fines, community service, reparation for damages all constitute that restoration process.. insurance companies act as brokers in the case of "accidental" causes and effects and their remedy.. but, in the realm of religion the principle of forgiveness rears its ugly head!.
Terry:
I would separate forgiveness from resentment altogether.
For one's own sake it is better to measure how much liklihood there is of taking action to bring a criminal or offender to just desserts. If it is impossible; let go of the rage and move on. However, forgiveness is not necessary to do that. You do as much as you can feasibly do to close the circle of justice. Beyond that you cannot do anything.
To forgive is to PARDON. In other words, when you forgive you let the offender off Scot Free!
for·give 
/ f?r'g?v / Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation [ fer-giv ] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation verb, -gave, -giv·en, -giv·ing. –verb (used with object)
| 1. | to grant pardon for or remission of (an offense, debt, etc.); absolve. |
| 2. | to give up all claim on account of; remit (a debt, obligation, etc.). |
| 3. | to grant pardon to (a person). |
| 4. | to cease to feel resentment against: to forgive one's enemies. |
| 5. | to cancel an indebtedness or liability of: to forgive the interest owed on a loan. |
–verb (used without object)
| 6. | to pardon an offense or an offender. |
Ceasing resentment is an essential part of forgiveness. It is an act of letting your own mind and body off "scot free". That you no-longer may pay the heavy price of the past that eats away at you.
It is often our bitterness that reinforces a sense of separation from others that opens the door to crime and man's inhumanity to man. If we were all to cease resentment it would pretty much put an end to the vicious circle of crime and punishment. If anything this gets to the very root of the problem.
That you want to leave this out of the equation, Terry, it's little wonder it makes no sense.
j
the wtbts always has meditation as a topic on conventions.
they always state that eastern meditation makes the mind "blank", so this is a no no.. of course we know that it is actually the convention that makes the mind blank :).
so what are your thoughts on meditation now?.
Cogy,
Yet again you present a clear and eloquent post. I really enjoy your warmly descriptive way with words that helps to bring clarity to what can be a very confusing subject for many.
And poppers, yet again, poetically points to the core of what it's all about.
j
