Seraphim23

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Posts by Seraphim23

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  8

  Any experiences with the presence of christ

  by DS211 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  weird question.

  have any of you had any personal experiences with the presence (not watchtower parousia presence) of christ within yoursef i.e the holy spirit, speaking in tongues, etc.

  or just experiences when you first came into a true relationship with christ?

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  Seraphim23

  Your very kind.
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  8

  Any experiences with the presence of christ

  by DS211 in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  weird question.

  have any of you had any personal experiences with the presence (not watchtower parousia presence) of christ within yoursef i.e the holy spirit, speaking in tongues, etc.

  or just experiences when you first came into a true relationship with christ?

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  Seraphim23

  Not with Christ directly that I could say was him but some experiences. When I was five I saw what I thought at the time was a ghost that created a wind over me and a few connected events around that. Also there have been a few strange instances connected with family members dying. Dreams that predicted the future is a big one with me throughout my life and other experiences not of that type. It’s a bit of a menagerie of things some of which I won’t talk about because they are too complex and strange.
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  304

  Musings about different types of atheist!

  by Seraphim23 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a thought that occurs to me is that if one has the belief that all that is real is only explicable in terms of particles and forces, and that nothing exists that is not one of these, then good and bad doesnt exist either, the same would be true for any concept for that matter.

  or perhaps it is only true when reduced to the level of matter and forces, but without the moral force, meaning and purpose that such a materialist only description would entail.

  after all, if death is forever, which is materialist view, then what does it matter if a seventy or seven year old enters the grave?

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  Seraphim23

  It’s a sad thing for me to admit DJS, but Christians seem to be enemy number one in the climate change debate. I personally don’t hold to the view that climate change is a conspiracy theory, as I see the basic facts as Co2 retains heat, there is more of it about because of carbon dioxide being released by man, and walla. In my mind it’s quite simple. Your right about many Christians holding to a world view that prohibits them from looking at evidence effectively or at all. I had many a debate of the board I was kicked off of on this topic. I tried to give them my bros and sister reasonable evidence and it failed to change their minds. So I tackled the reasons why they were resistant to the facts by tackling theological issues and that also failed. So you have a big point. I even tried the precautionary principle as a way to get through and guess what, it failed. One or two did see the points I was making but by and large they left due to being in the minority and I got kicked off for other reasons. Now they are happy because those left there all agree with each other, and that board is half dead as a result. I get as frustrated by my own fellow Christians as atheists do I suspect.
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  304

  Musings about different types of atheist!

  by Seraphim23 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a thought that occurs to me is that if one has the belief that all that is real is only explicable in terms of particles and forces, and that nothing exists that is not one of these, then good and bad doesnt exist either, the same would be true for any concept for that matter.

  or perhaps it is only true when reduced to the level of matter and forces, but without the moral force, meaning and purpose that such a materialist only description would entail.

  after all, if death is forever, which is materialist view, then what does it matter if a seventy or seven year old enters the grave?

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  Seraphim23

  Opinions with some logic thrown in snare. I wasn’t angry though, I just have a different view to you regarding these things. My views I would say are also based on evidence, hence the logical part, just not always on the sort that is placed into a test tube, if you get my meaning.
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  304

  Musings about different types of atheist!

  by Seraphim23 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a thought that occurs to me is that if one has the belief that all that is real is only explicable in terms of particles and forces, and that nothing exists that is not one of these, then good and bad doesnt exist either, the same would be true for any concept for that matter.

  or perhaps it is only true when reduced to the level of matter and forces, but without the moral force, meaning and purpose that such a materialist only description would entail.

  after all, if death is forever, which is materialist view, then what does it matter if a seventy or seven year old enters the grave?

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  Seraphim23

  No I wouldnt.
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  304

  Musings about different types of atheist!

  by Seraphim23 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a thought that occurs to me is that if one has the belief that all that is real is only explicable in terms of particles and forces, and that nothing exists that is not one of these, then good and bad doesnt exist either, the same would be true for any concept for that matter.

  or perhaps it is only true when reduced to the level of matter and forces, but without the moral force, meaning and purpose that such a materialist only description would entail.

  after all, if death is forever, which is materialist view, then what does it matter if a seventy or seven year old enters the grave?

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  Seraphim23

  DJS thank you for your reasonable tone. You are the type of atheist I could have a good conversation with and leave the table as friends. You also make good and relevant points I partly agree with as with the `I feel and I believe` point. I try not to do that unless it is in the domain of cumulative anecdotal evidence of supernatural experience for example, and even then while trying to rationally rule out mental disorders and so on using scientific rational. I would say on the other hand that blanket or sarcastic statements also have a tendency to do the same from the mouths of some atheists when it comes to ending a conversation, so it happens on both sides in different ways.

  I do sympathise however with the journey from theism to atheism, in a non-patronising way, because I have partly gone through some of the stages of such a journey. My mum is an emotionally damaged JW and she was raised in that faith, and my dad is and always was an atheist, so I was exposed to both views from day one. The older I have got, the more I have moved away from my mother’s world view towards my dad’s world view. I also looked at ID and Abiogenesis. In my case I rejected them on the grounds that God doesn’t have to tinker with something if he made it right the first time. However that on its own was not strong enough to convince me that God could not and definitely didnt exist because perhaps things are the way they should be or something else was at work I didn’t know about. I certainly realised that the bible is not inerrant but again I didn’t reject it outright and learnt a lot about the history of the doctrine of inspiration which was an eye opener for example. Enough about my journey but the point is I do have much in common with atheists and can empathise with them, like I do with my own Father.

  I do think there are hard line atheists who at all costs reject even the possibility of God because science has been turned into scientism and atheism an ideology but also there are other, in my view, more rational atheists who are open minded enough to entertain the idea of a God in theory, as it were, although they don’t personally believe in one. This group is commonly called agnostic but the terminology in this area is a contradictory mine field, abused by both side to the exclusion of the other. This would be a topic in itself.

  I think it is possible for constructive dialogue to be had between theists and non-theists but only between the types of theist and non-theist who understands that science has to be defined before it is discussed. Reasonable theists will accept the conclusions of science and its implications for certain theological frameworks, as I do. Reasonable non-theists will understand the limits of science. Science of course has evolved and is arguably still evolving, which is a key point. There is more than one definition because of its continuing history of change. This is a profound problem unless great care is taken to define which definition is being used in a discussion, or if people are willing to be more flexible and empathetic in discussions and debates on both sides which is often unfortunately not the case.

  Science according to a common definition is limited to this universe, because only in this universe can predicative power of a theory be seen and tested by observation. The more abstract a theory is, the more its predictive power tends to fall, and predictive power is one of the definitions of science. This may mean that science is limited in the strict sense to this universe. If so it is possible for other realms to exist of course but be forever out of the reach of science, if defined as a methodology which it also often is.

  However as science evolves it may well be defined differently in future, which may mean is goes into realms of metaphysics and increasingly into philosophical questions and even theology.

  Another issue that arises are the tools of science because they are necessarily physical in nature, because we live in a physical universe. As such the very tools of science may affect in unknown ways the physical things being tested or studied, yielding results that may be skewed and thus not be the most accurate picture, leaving open mindedness a virtue when it comes to so called supernatural subjects for example. For instance, some atheists like to berate theists for believing in, as they call it, magic. However particles appearing out of what gets called nothing and disappearing again is not labelled in this way, yet is very much the same thing. There are areas of science that although they give useful results, are not intelligible because they go against common sense and common experience. They leave the realm of classical science leading to yet another definition of what is called science.

  I think for all these reasons and more besides, a dialogue can be had between some categories of non-theist and theist. Dogmatics on both sides cause half the problems, and the real interesting stuff to talk about is lost in the noise. The dialogue doesn’t have to be circular or entrenched because I think there are some categories of non-theist and theist that have more in common and more to discuss than their own kin as it were. Being a theist that has changed his mind on many matters, both because of science, and about science itself, along with theological, metaphysical and philosophical views I think it is possible for both sides to sit down and eat bread together, but some will always oppose this due to their own insecurities and deficiencies.
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  304

  Musings about different types of atheist!

  by Seraphim23 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a thought that occurs to me is that if one has the belief that all that is real is only explicable in terms of particles and forces, and that nothing exists that is not one of these, then good and bad doesnt exist either, the same would be true for any concept for that matter.

  or perhaps it is only true when reduced to the level of matter and forces, but without the moral force, meaning and purpose that such a materialist only description would entail.

  after all, if death is forever, which is materialist view, then what does it matter if a seventy or seven year old enters the grave?

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  Seraphim23

  I’m not saying I am an expert of what is called M theory snare but the deceit is not on my side unless lay descriptions and ideas are now wrong. Considering that M theory may not even be properly categorised as science that is a bit rich on your part! What is interesting to me is that because I am a believer in God my ideas don’t get the hearing and respect they would if I were using scientific sounding terminology and professing the label of atheist. I guess the perception that I am not on team atheist has more to do with ideology than a fair hearing and impartiality. The idea of a framework of which the universe is not the only thing but within so to speak, gets rejected in this context but accepted in another. That says less about me being deceitful and more about you and others perception and bias. I’m glad you’re a doctor because you may lean from you patients in time that some things in life don’t fit the scientific paradigm, despite its power.
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  304

  Musings about different types of atheist!

  by Seraphim23 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a thought that occurs to me is that if one has the belief that all that is real is only explicable in terms of particles and forces, and that nothing exists that is not one of these, then good and bad doesnt exist either, the same would be true for any concept for that matter.

  or perhaps it is only true when reduced to the level of matter and forces, but without the moral force, meaning and purpose that such a materialist only description would entail.

  after all, if death is forever, which is materialist view, then what does it matter if a seventy or seven year old enters the grave?

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  Seraphim23

  Actually I was talking mostly about M theory but in lay terms. I wondered when someone would catch on.
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  304

  Musings about different types of atheist!

  by Seraphim23 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a thought that occurs to me is that if one has the belief that all that is real is only explicable in terms of particles and forces, and that nothing exists that is not one of these, then good and bad doesnt exist either, the same would be true for any concept for that matter.

  or perhaps it is only true when reduced to the level of matter and forces, but without the moral force, meaning and purpose that such a materialist only description would entail.

  after all, if death is forever, which is materialist view, then what does it matter if a seventy or seven year old enters the grave?

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  Seraphim23

  Interesting video adamah.
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  304

  Musings about different types of atheist!

  by Seraphim23 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  a thought that occurs to me is that if one has the belief that all that is real is only explicable in terms of particles and forces, and that nothing exists that is not one of these, then good and bad doesnt exist either, the same would be true for any concept for that matter.

  or perhaps it is only true when reduced to the level of matter and forces, but without the moral force, meaning and purpose that such a materialist only description would entail.

  after all, if death is forever, which is materialist view, then what does it matter if a seventy or seven year old enters the grave?

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  Seraphim23

  I’m not sure what you mean? However I’ve not been here before under a different name.