Posts by 1009

165

Board of bitterness

by 1009 in

i always was a critical jw, now df and agnost.

but still this religion fascinates me.

in my eyes most jw are very sincere, but dumb sheep.. this board is filled with ex-jw.

1009

factfinder
Hi 1009,
I don't think I am bitter. Dissapointed. Sad, because my hopes for the future were found to be untrue.
I wondered too why there are so many on jwn who are very angry at the wts, but now I understand. People have had their lives wasted and ruined by spending it as a jw. I could have gotten a career, but, no, just part time jobs because armageddon is coming any day now and we need to put Jehovah first. Now I will have no money to retire on. I have no future to look forward to.
For years I also felt anger towards jws, but I did not want all the negativity. I'm trying to become more balanced. But I have not forgotten the bad experiences. They have affected me.
I have no desire to stop witnesses from being such, nor would I encourage anyone to join them. It is up to each one as to what they want to believe.
JWN allows us to vent, ask questions, have access to information we would not otherwise have.
I'm glad that you had many good experiences as a jw. But why did you leave?
Anyway, speaking for myself, I do not think I am bitter, and I do not hate jws. But it is not the truth, no religion is and I am disgusted by the arrogance of the new gb and their attitude , hatred and view of any who no longer want to attend meetings.
There are many good comments here. I hope your question has been answered.

Hi factfinder.

Thank you for your answer. I think our attitude is quit similar. It is sad that your active family doesn't maintain contact with you. I read in your first post at this board that you're not DF, so they cannot use that excuse. But it is cool to see that you want to avoid 'all the negativity', dispite the disappointments.

Basically I left because I lost my faith in God. You can read more details in a post in this topic and also in my first topic at this board.

You also tell in you first topic that you always felt 'like an outsider'. May I ask why? Did that make it easier for you to take a distance to JW? I'm wondering why my experiences are so different from most of the others here. But I too felt like an outsider. Like I was the only one that didn't blindly follow what the WTG said, but because I was convinced that their explanation was right. Maybe that is a clue to understand why I am not as disappointed as others.

JakeM2012
1009, I don't appreciate your accusatory tone and condemnation, and your reasoning is as flawed as WTBTS's.

When visiting this site, one must give consideration that many are at various stages of recovery and reconstruction. The vast majority here are sincerely trying to move on with life in a peaceful and non-retalitory way. Many of us are in the process of reconstruction of our lives after realization that what we had worked so hard and made personal sacrifices for and with has been nothing but lies. Some have devoted the best years and even the majority of their life to the efforts of Watchtower Bible Tract Society with nothing to show for it other than regrets, not even in any supposed spiritual way of storing treasures in heaven.

When I consider this group of individuals compared to the investors of the King of Ponzi Schemes Bernie Madoff, I see similarities and differences. Quite frankly, you have no qualifications or divine appointment for your judgmental attitude either. You state that if we don't claim to have the truth we cannot judge who is right and wrong. I may not know the full truth of the universe, but I can with confidence tell you that Watchtower Bible and Tract Society's teachings are not only incorrect, but intentionally fabricated lies, even they admit that by changing their teachings regularly claiming "new light". So basically, shut your trap up.

Hi JakeM2012, I recognize the ' various stages of recovery and reconstruction'. My stage is clearly different than yours. In the past I could, as an active JW, not post at this board. I too ' have devoted the best years and even the majority of their life'. But not to an organisation, but to a God that does not exist. Now I am no longer a JW and I can show you that there are also ex-JW without the anger that is common at this board. And you tell me to shut up because you just cannot accept that I am not as angry as you are? Get a life!

EmptyInside
Everyone is different.

I'm glad you feel so well-adjusted after leaving the Witnesses.

But,if we can't occasionally vent here,where else can we go? lol.I have read literal horror stories on this board. Some have gone through much abuse and lost their families.

Some,like me,can't be 100% open with those they love.

So,if they want to discuss these issues with those who have gone through the same,then,why not

Actually,I see more depressed and complaining people at the Kingdom Hall then I read here.

Hi EmptyInside,

You have some good points. I'm probably here too to vent. No other place to do that either. And indeed, the ones with horror stories should post them here, it is obvious the best place for that. And it is also true that there are many 'depressed and complaining people at the Kingdom Hall'. Nice meeting you.

Berengaria
You were in for 30 years and have no family or friends there??

Hi Berengaria,

I was a 3th generation JW. father got DF when I was just a little kid. My grandmother allready died. My mother is inactive. My halfsister, on fathers side, and her children are JW too. But I only have seen her about 10 times in my life, the first time when I was about 22. We did not have much contact.

I did have friends, but not very much. I was very independent, had good contact with all in my environment. The ones that I called friends in the past, appeared to be fake friends. So, no, I do not have friends there.

165

Board of bitterness

by 1009 in

i always was a critical jw, now df and agnost.

but still this religion fascinates me.

in my eyes most jw are very sincere, but dumb sheep.. this board is filled with ex-jw.

1009

Frazzled UBM
I wondered how the organization found out about that [pornography] - 1009 did you confess? If all elders came clean on that score I bet none of them would have any privileges.

Yes, I felt guilty and confessed.

165

Board of bitterness

by 1009 in

i always was a critical jw, now df and agnost.

but still this religion fascinates me.

in my eyes most jw are very sincere, but dumb sheep.. this board is filled with ex-jw.

1009

LisaRose
You didn't hear about [bullying or abuse] because anyone who complained was disfellowshipped, with no way to tell their side of the story. Sure there were nice people in the organization, and many good elders, but it is rotten at the top, to those men, nothing is as important as maintaining control and keeping the rank and file dependent, ignorant and afraid to question anything. I was like you, I left, but thought it was a good religion, just not for me. Since then my eyes have been opened. It took eight years before I felt comfortable going on a so called "apostate" website. I realized I was manipulated and lied to. Go to Howcultswork.com them come back and say the dubs don't fit the criteria. Believe me it was hard to accept that I was in a cult, that I had been that stupid, but it was true.

I've seen a few DF's. My parents got DF'ed before my birth and were reinstated later. My father has some complaints about that DF, because the elders were harsh with him. He never complained about his second (and current) DF. Other friends of me also came back as JW and didn't complain. I got DF and didn't see any bullying. So again: I think it involves a minority.

You say it is 'rotten at the top'. Do you know those men personally? I think they are sincerely trying to lead an organization according to their believes.

I've read the part on http://howcultswork.com/. Yes, most of the keypoints apply to JW. But I find the definition of 'cult' very fluid. The main point however is mind control. There is absolutely mind control among JW, but I doubt the JW-leaders are conscious they are practising it. And I wonder if that by definition is a bad thing. I see mind control all around me: on television, commercials, politics. Some are more sensitive of mind control than others. As I described before: I think most JW are just dumb followers. But when they are happy with that, who am I to judge them? Why should we 'help' them if they feel comfortable?

85

I'm thinking about going back

by Corboy101 in

jw
friends

i have been out for 22 years.i was raised as a jehovahs witness.

i was baptized in 1986 but soon after left the religion.

theres a whole lot to the reasons why i left, but i left.

1009

punkofnice
Er....guys.........I don't know if anyone saw corboy's response?

His response was...

Most of you (not all) just want to argue and be angry to anyone who "disagrees" with them. Sound familiar? Dumbasses!!!

I think he wend back...

165

Board of bitterness

by 1009 in

i always was a critical jw, now df and agnost.

but still this religion fascinates me.

in my eyes most jw are very sincere, but dumb sheep.. this board is filled with ex-jw.

1009

confusedandalone
1009, you sound like you are actually someone posing as no longer one of JW's when you are infact probably a high hour publisher who recently got involved in some form of wrongdoing that you are afraid to go to the brothers with. You think that coming here and challenging apostates and lashing disfellowshipped ones you are making an atonement for your sin that you are afraid to take before the brothers because of the damage it will cause your family...

I would like to react at this right now because I see that some of you doubt my sincerity.

I am 36 years old Dutchmen and was a 3th generation JW. My father left us when I was 6 and he got DF. Got baptized when I was 14 (1991), started pioneering at 18 (1995), I became MS at 20 (1997), and married another pioneer at 22 (1999). I lost my 'priviliges' after a number of years because of pornography. I regained them again, and we started 'serving' in the foreign langauge field. As MS I was invited to held talks in our and in other congrations in the country. I worked hard in the congregation and I also considered it a 'privilige' to assist our CO in a number of organizational matters.

During the years I always had contact with my DF father. The elders knew that, and never made a problem out of it. My mother became inactive a few years ago. I'm visiting this board for years because I always found interesting things. I also red parts of R. Franz' book. But those never raised any doubts in me.

I had marital problems, and prayed a lot. Years of praying. Finally I concluded that, despite the millions of promises in the Bible, God does not help in any way. That most of the Bible is illogical (I line with https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOfjkl-3SNE). My faith was destroyed. I got myself a girlfriend, left my ex-wife over a year ago and got DF .

I started working fulltime for the first time in my life, moved to Colombia and married my loving girlfriend. Right now I do not believe in a God, nor in the Bible, nor in what JW teach. I feel free and happier as ever .

165

Board of bitterness

by 1009 in

i always was a critical jw, now df and agnost.

but still this religion fascinates me.

in my eyes most jw are very sincere, but dumb sheep.. this board is filled with ex-jw.

1009

Honesty
1009 has left the building.

Sorry, needed to spend some time with my (new) wife and slept during the night. Today I've to work. I will give some responses during the day, but one by one. There a lot of reactions here, I see I hit a snare. Is that correct English? English also is not my primary language, so I need some extra time to translate. I will try to response to each one of you. I see two very long replies, I appreciate that very much.

Now where did I stay? About here:

trujw
Hey it is estimated only 200,000 people have died from not having blood since 1945. No big deal. Jim jones only killed what 2000 people. A close friend of mine had his dad die. He should just get over it. Murder is murder if children die that could have been saved. Sorry I'm not over it.

That is ofcourse a serious issue. It is very sad when people die. I understand that a person who not supports the blood doctrine, becomes bitter when a loved one dies after refusing blood.

I remember a time I red in the newspaper a JW died from refusing blood. Later it became clear that the sister would have died anyway, even if she had accepted blood. So I always have my doubts when I read somewhere that a JW died from not having blood: was that really the cause? Also: I still prefer blood free alternatives.

I do not know the estimates. I think that is an overestimate. http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com/2012/02/more-than-50000-dead.html comes to an estimate of 50,000. But I got to admit: that is still a lot.

For an outsider it will always seem unreasonable to refuse a threatment, and when someone dies it is easy to blame the organisation that defined the doctrine. When I would have refused blood, that would be because I believed their doctrine is right. Nobody forced me to believe that. I made a choice. Maybe a wrong one. But to call WTG murderers? No, I (still) don't agree with that.

165

Board of bitterness

by 1009 in

i always was a critical jw, now df and agnost.

but still this religion fascinates me.

in my eyes most jw are very sincere, but dumb sheep.. this board is filled with ex-jw.

1009

joyfulfader
Of course we all had different experiences. Depends on the circles you were part of, the people you knew as well as your status and the status of your family. The familiar illustration of the blind men describing an elephant. We only see the parts we are exposed to. It's great that you don't have residual effects but deciding for everyone else that they have no right to feel them is irrational and unproductive.I come to the board because I can keep up with the latest JW thinking. It's helpful since I haven't been to a kh in 2 years. I stay in the loop of the latest "light" so when my parents mention something I know what they are speaking of. Keeps me ahead of the game without dealing with the org.
Perhaps being less critical of the pain of others would better you as a person now that you are out and happy. Perhaps you could use that happiness and freedom to encourage and inspire others rather than perpetuate the guilt. Some are just bitter and out to incite discord. Do you enjoy being one of them? Just curious.

Allthough I have no family or friends inside, I recognize that 'need' to be up-to-date.

But you are right: who am I to diminish to feelings of others? I just had other experiences and from what I experienced it is hard to understand the bitterness. I am trying, but maybe just to sober.

Maybe I can just add another perspective to this board: it wasn't all that bad. I did have a very good time as a JW, and I am sure many do have a good time today as well. So from my point of reasoning: why bother them?

Honesty
1009, have you considered seeking professional counseling?

Not a single second.

Hortensia
I imagine the one you knew was a nice safe KH with essentially nice people. If you had been the victim of the kinds of injustice experienced by many on this board, you might be more sympathetic. Well, I'm glad things weren't so awful for you. It's rather nice to know that not everyone suffered so much.
On the other hand, many have suffered a lot of damage from their years in the org. If you're fascinated with the JW religion, you might try learning about the kinds of wounds that were inflicted by the wtbts and its members, and how that damage affects a person's life.

I've seen a lot of congregations in my 30 years, also in the foreign language field. Yes, essentially nice people. Dumb, but nice. Some morons. I did have my conflicts with several elders, but they're too just humans. I cannot blame them for being like that.

165

Board of bitterness

by 1009 in

i always was a critical jw, now df and agnost.

but still this religion fascinates me.

in my eyes most jw are very sincere, but dumb sheep.. this board is filled with ex-jw.

1009

joyfulfader
you were obviously either closing your eyes or not in the loop those 30 yrs...bullying and abuse is a regular thing. maybe its all religion. i dont know. dont plan on finding out. i do know u are wrong on that point. its not the minority. Most just keep it hush hush to stay out of the "back room".

I was a happy JW and I did all what I did because I believed it was right. It turned out to be wrong and now I am out. Goodbye WTG. We had a nice time together, not anymore.

I just don't understand that so many of you had very different experiences. The way you describe it, it almost is like you talk about another religion, not the one I knew.

165

Board of bitterness

by 1009 in

i always was a critical jw, now df and agnost.

but still this religion fascinates me.

in my eyes most jw are very sincere, but dumb sheep.. this board is filled with ex-jw.

1009

label licker
It's pretty sad when [...] So now, what's your story and why are you here?

Sad things happen. I feel sorry for you. Sad things happened to me too. I got over it. Furthermore, I cannot blame an organisation for mistakes or even crimes of individuals.

LisaRose
If you have left the dubs, why are you coming here, repeating the same, tired lies the Watchtower likes to peddle? I heard for years the that all apostates are bitter, unhappy, evil people. I was quite surprised to find a lot of nice people here. Yes, people come here to talk about their experiences as Witnesses, but what is wrong with that? It was a big part of our lives, and when we were in we couldn't say these things. So what if we want to complain? No one is forcing you to read it.

I am actually very happy in my life, I have moved on, but at the same time I still have an interest. I leave for years, then check back in. I am glad I found out about the Candace Conti verdict and got to see the hilarious deaf masturbation and Sparlock videos. Stick around, you might learn something.

Like I said: it still fascinates me. It was my life as well. And JW still fascinate me, opponents as well. Why do people think the way they think? Isn't that awesome to unraffle? And I saw interesting stuff on this board, allready when I was still active. And I do believe that there are nice people here. I just have the feeling that some of them still cannot find any rest. Like I did.

165

Board of bitterness

by 1009 in

i always was a critical jw, now df and agnost.

but still this religion fascinates me.

in my eyes most jw are very sincere, but dumb sheep.. this board is filled with ex-jw.

1009

144001
If you were a JW, you should know damn well why people are "bitter."

I was all the way in, and honestly don't understand these bitterness. I was a happy JW, and now happy that I am out. No regrets though.

Jeffro
Typical of JW claims, you make reference to "the truth", as if there is necessarily some absolute 'truth'.
I know enough facts to know that JWs are definitely wrong. It's basic math.

I don't believe in an absolute truth anymore. And yes, JW are definitly wrong. But I cannot blame JW for what the believe.

Comatose
It is human nature to feel hurt when bullied and abused... I am surprised you find that so hard to understand.

"Bullied and abused"? Sure, individuals make mistakes, so there certainly will be people who got bullied and abused. But I am convinced that that is a minority. I didn't see or hear about any bullying or abuse in the 30 years I was in.

1009
Suffered injustice? The world is filled with that.

JeffroThat's a quite stupid response. Unless you are claiming that no one in any situation should ever feel bitter about any injustice they personally experience? A woman is raped? Oh well, people get raped all the time.
Someone's family gets murdered? Oh well, people get murdered all the time.
Brilliant logic.

OK, you might have a point there.

ablebodiedman I could keep quiet however, that would trouble my conscience.

So, they judge you. Now you judge them. You are no better.