this is going to break the hearts of a lot of uber-jw's!
reddit has now removed the video link of samuel herd telling jw's they will no longer have to report time or placements - just tick a box which says "active.".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akdshyx79rm&t=13s.
If this is true ... the Annual Report is finished and it will be impossible for anyone (in or outside of the Organization) to track any of its markers. And it seems that someone in the GB has finally understood the Brotherhood's attitude towards witnessing and has made the call, thus covering up the fact that no one cares about it ... or wants to go.
In summery ... just another cover up.
i see this phrase a lot: "the indication of a cult is what happens when you leave.
" i'm not sure where that originated, but it is a faulty categorization.
"cult" is almost always used in a derogatory way.
LongHairGal
While I do appreciate your comments (and I actually do) , you must also know that Islam is not just practiced in nominally Muslin countries. You can find it in the US, the UK, all over the world in fact... as you can the honor killings, female genital mutilation, polygamy and child marriages done by members of that religion in the west, quite regularly. But if want to exude this religion, we could talk about the Satanic death cults that operate in Europe ... or the sex religions of North America. Modern Japan has a fascination with these kind of things too.
I'm sorry but people just can't cherry pick their sample data. Otherwise objectivity goes right out of the window.
i see this phrase a lot: "the indication of a cult is what happens when you leave.
" i'm not sure where that originated, but it is a faulty categorization.
"cult" is almost always used in a derogatory way.
Thank you LongHairGal for your considered and thoughtful reply.
However my comments were based on the original question on high control religions in general, which would naturally include those that have existed throughout time.
Many here still refer to the Jonestown suicide cult of 1975 and others like the Japanese Aum Shinriko (Supreme Truth) suicide cult of the 80's, so I thought that it was relevant to include a thought about the Spanish Inquisition. And as the original question was not limited to North American, not traditional, Christian faiths with the numbers of worshipers less than 10 million ... I thought fair to include Muslim religions.
And finally I don't think that you appreciate the structure of Arabic theocratic governments. While there may be a elected President at the top of the political tree, REAL and INSTITUTIONAL power lies directly with the head of the country's Islamic religious faith ... just like the Pope of Rome directly controlled European Kings of the past. Iran is not a political organization with a religion flavor ... no, it is a religious organization that operates in the political space. Thus Iran's morality police are legally able to beat 16 year old girls into a comatose state, over a tuft of hair or the palest of lip gloss.
Religion is a snare and a racket this is for sure, just a Russell said. However the WBTS is not the center of the universe, and there are bigger religions (and non-religious organizations) that fit the BITE model, with problems that are far more worrisome.
If you doubt me, just research Iranian modern history and battle tactics (regarding the willingness to martyr waves of 10 year old Iranian boys on bicycles against Iraqi heavy armor) ... and now think of Ayatollah Khamenei with nuclear weapons.
i see this phrase a lot: "the indication of a cult is what happens when you leave.
" i'm not sure where that originated, but it is a faulty categorization.
"cult" is almost always used in a derogatory way.
Funny that ... another incident involving Iranian morality police.
Do you still believe that we are in a high control religion?
when i was interested in things jw two decades or so ago, i never came across these mentions of hailstones.
it crops up so often now that it's almost a meme!
when did it become a thing in jw speak, and what does it refer to?.
If the GB want to end door to door witnessing done by the Brotherhood, then just bring in the 'Hailstone' message. Because no-one will be going out witnessing when that's announced, that's for sure.
an elder with half a brain (and they must exist 🧐) is going to see the writing on the wall with the way the wt is manoeuvring them into taking the fall over csa cases.
can an elder in good standing step down with no consequences, official or social?.
I resigned similar to BluesBrother's comment, which I truly was ... but the exElders club, is a real funny one. You end up sort of a nobody. This is because for years the only people that were really your friends in the congregation, were the other Elders. And when you step down, they move on (to busy really to give you much attention) while the general publishers that you know, are quite distant socially.
Yeh ... being a exElder is a bit strange, but our numbers are growing.
i see this phrase a lot: "the indication of a cult is what happens when you leave.
" i'm not sure where that originated, but it is a faulty categorization.
"cult" is almost always used in a derogatory way.
The more that I see these kinds of topics and the posts that follow, the more I'm beginning to wonder how many people really research things for themselves or is everyone now just content to echo the comments of others.
I seriously don't know.
I'm saying this because when anyone even superficially compares Jehovahs Witnesses to other mainstream religions of the world today, you must come to the conclusion that the Society is definitely not a cult and on its ranking against other high control groups in the world, it would be to be only half way up the ladder (at best), on the global scale.
I'll explain why.
Firstly, compare being an average Witness to a Muslim in Afghanistan under Taliban control. Are you more or less free? Compare being a average Witness to a Muslim in Iran under Khamenei. Are you more or less free? What about the worshipers of the Kim dynasty of North Korea .... better or worse. Yet, those three countries alone (and the Faiths that steer them) dominate every aspect of the lives of over 155 million people. And millions of those people over the years have literally been lost at the whims of their religious leaders, through needless wars of ideology, purges and direct assassinations ... all in the desire for the control of how their people think. Why in the past 10 months of this year alone ... 70,000 Muslim civilians have been killed by Muslim Taliban fighters because the latter believe those in Karbul have fallen away from the true faith.
And people say the we are in some kind of dangerous high control group? I'd say to these ones, go and take your family to live for a while in any Arabic country ruled by a theocratic government (which is most of them) and see how free and safe you really are. Yeh ... let your wife and daughter take their bikinis down to the beach, and see what kind of sh*t storm you'll create. Or go and talk to the family of Ms Amini who was beaten to death in a Tehtanian detention center by the moral police because some of her hair was visible under her headscarf. And then you might begin to understand the concept of living in a high control religion.
Secondly, as a older person who has spent his whole life in 'The Truth' and seen a lot, I can tell you, that no more than 20% of the brotherhood are hard-core Witnesses. The rest, the 80% of Jehovah's Witnesses, live quite relaxed lives. Many drink more than they should, go to parties when ever they want, travel the world, get involved in a sport and some even dare to go to university. I even known Sisters that have gone topless bathing during the summer holidays. Yes this 80% are just doing the minimum, been doing it all their lives and all still remain in 'good standing' congregationally.
And yet people say that we are in some kind of prison? I'd say to these ones, just open your eyes and take a honest look a the people in your congregation and see that the greatest majority do what they basically like, and don't know or really care about the latest 'new light' that comes down from above.
And finally and most importantly, no person, organization, religion, political party or gang has power over you ... unless you give it to them first. That's the bottom line. Somewhere in your life, YOU made a deal with the Organization. Maybe it didn't work out like you expected, but none the less you did the math and joined up. Yes, we all did that calculation .... and for better or worse, we married our religion and willingly committed ourselves to certain obligations.
It's does no good just continuing to bitch about the bad decisions that WE made. It's just not helpful nor healthful. And quite frankly, if we've had to suffer through a judicial committee, you should thank God that the Elders didn't extract information from you stretched out on the rack, on the wheel or in a iron maiden ... because if you want want to compare our religion to others from the past, you'll quickly understand that we are already living in paradise.
i thought this fellow, not sure if he is pimo or pomo, who goes by the name anonymous, gives a fair opinion summary.. "i was a jw for many years, but generally not a particularly stellar example of one.
your question has two components, and i will address them separately:.
opinion of jws as a people:.
While I mostly agree with the comments of Anonymous, I don't agree with the idea that the faith is the worst out there.
Yes it true that a lot is asked from the Brotherhood, but if you compare the Organization with the Bahai, Christadelphians and the Amish, all insist in rejecting military service, regardless to the cost. The Amish and its related faiths, have strong disfellowshiping rules and regulations and separateness from the 'English'. And if you want to include non-christian religions, there are still many Islamic sects (I use the work 'sects' because Muslims don't see their own divisions other religions) that encourage honor killing, female genital mutilation, child marriage and the murder of non-believers.
And I'm also sure that JWs don't have the most weirdo beliefs out there either ... as Scientology and the Universe People (with all other UFO religions) would have to be higher up than us.
Hi Ron ... basically Russell founded the WBTS originally as a 'for-profit' business. However was Russell was the 'Faithful and Discrete Slave', which made it a religious organization also. It got bigger and bought more and more properties and expanded internationally. In the course of time, various governments (for various reasons) and market fluctuations began to make some in the WBTS to think that the whole Society could be at risk of collapse if there were financial problems (which some eventuated). By now there were many corporate entities globally and in a move to mitigate problems the GB assigned a new president to split the business side of things, while the GB controlled church doctrine. This was done, so in the worse case scenario, the GB could let parts of the WBTS go bankrupt without its contagion cascading completely.
In reality of course the GB still controls both.
Big Dog is right but since the GB split the legal entities from the religious organization (done in the 90s I think), being a share holder means very little today. Its now become a kind of royal Gala event, for the connected to feel important. I'd rather just go out and get some pizza.
