Posts by no-zombie

37

If you were to design a new religion?

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

what the jw sect has become and is slowly becoming is far more near what i thought could be a good religion based on the bible.. no more counting hours and no more blindly following direction now they admit they are not inspired.. i would like to design a new sect inside the jws.

it has to be kept secret because the elders would not like it.. this new sect involves giving a tick every month or so saying you are still kindof active talking about the bible.. going to meetings occasionally and attending on zoom sometimes.

very rarely go to ministry groups but don’t ever do first call, just say you are doing street work and have a nice walk somewhere maybe the shops or the park.

no-zombie

ExbethelitenowPIMA, I think that are missing the points I'm trying to make.

You are not going to get a revolution to over-throw the Governing Body's authority in the congregation. Raymond Franz, was our best chance and even he failed to reform the Organization ... and do you have more leverage than him? I think not. No, I don't trust the Governing Body to do the right thing, But I am anticipating that they will change the Faith because they will have too. As It will be a case of change the religion or watch it perish.

However, if you are determined to start some kind of fifth column, you can try ... but I know how it will work out, and it will not be good for those involved.

end of comments

37

If you were to design a new religion?

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

what the jw sect has become and is slowly becoming is far more near what i thought could be a good religion based on the bible.. no more counting hours and no more blindly following direction now they admit they are not inspired.. i would like to design a new sect inside the jws.

it has to be kept secret because the elders would not like it.. this new sect involves giving a tick every month or so saying you are still kindof active talking about the bible.. going to meetings occasionally and attending on zoom sometimes.

very rarely go to ministry groups but don’t ever do first call, just say you are doing street work and have a nice walk somewhere maybe the shops or the park.

no-zombie

ExbethelitenowPIMA ... it could take 5 years for the Organization to tone down to become effectively different. However say you are personally bothered by a particular doctrine (say the literal interpretation of the 144,000), you might get relief a bit earlier. Even then, the best you could say to your friends would be ... "finally, I always knew that the 144,000 was a symbolic number."

However on a another thing that you mention previously ...

You know all those clandestine bible study groups we heard about, in the end they all collapsed. It was either through people leaving the Faith on their own accord, because they realized that nothing was going to change without the GB's say so ... or they got ratted out. Its just what has historically happened.

37

If you were to design a new religion?

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

what the jw sect has become and is slowly becoming is far more near what i thought could be a good religion based on the bible.. no more counting hours and no more blindly following direction now they admit they are not inspired.. i would like to design a new sect inside the jws.

it has to be kept secret because the elders would not like it.. this new sect involves giving a tick every month or so saying you are still kindof active talking about the bible.. going to meetings occasionally and attending on zoom sometimes.

very rarely go to ministry groups but don’t ever do first call, just say you are doing street work and have a nice walk somewhere maybe the shops or the park.

no-zombie

ExbethelitenowPIMA, I think that it still would be a mistake to publicly voice your differences regarding the Governing Body and their teachings. Because if the trend we are seeing continues to develop, it could take 5 years before the Faith has toned down, but during that time, it still would be easy to get disfellowshipped for apostasy.

Even if others in the congregation may fully agree with you, remember that nothing changes until the very day the Governing Body publicly announces it. Thus while it may be frustrating, we must take comfort in knowing at least we are free in our minds and have the hope of sunnier days.

37

If you were to design a new religion?

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

what the jw sect has become and is slowly becoming is far more near what i thought could be a good religion based on the bible.. no more counting hours and no more blindly following direction now they admit they are not inspired.. i would like to design a new sect inside the jws.

it has to be kept secret because the elders would not like it.. this new sect involves giving a tick every month or so saying you are still kindof active talking about the bible.. going to meetings occasionally and attending on zoom sometimes.

very rarely go to ministry groups but don’t ever do first call, just say you are doing street work and have a nice walk somewhere maybe the shops or the park.

no-zombie

I know that there are many people here that would be happy to see the Warwick and Paterson buildings on fire, along with all the closing of the rest of the world's churches and places of worship. But that fact is, it will never happen. Religion and along with it, its buildings and organizational structures has always been with mankind and always will be. I'd go as far as to to say that the act of worshiping God may even be genetic, of which there is some evidence. This being the case, wouldn't it be better to have religions that are benign, or better still, ones that act as forces of good in our communities? For me I'd say, yes?

So if we get back to the rather whimsical notion of a JW LITE religion, I think that if someone stripped away all the painful parts of the Society and build on what was good about it (of which I believe there is quite a lot), it could become something that people might want to join than rather leave.

For example, Jehovah's Witnesses are known world wide as being a honest and moral people. We do have a history of being a people who are willing to stand up for our beliefs, particularly as pacifists and ones who want the traditional family rolls to remain. And while smothered a little, we know that Jehovah's Witnesses respect the Bible and (on a individual level) do try to lead a spiritual life. These are not bad things.

Thus if the pain of disfellowshipping was removed the the Faith, if child abuse issues were correctly handled, if people could practice their own conscience (by going to university and the like), would not being a Jehovah's Witness be a good thing for some people? Once again ... I'd say yes!

However will a LITE version of Jehovah's Witnesses it appear? I'm not that hopeful, as it would go against every fiber of the current Governing Body. For them to loose control (to the degree required) would be a very, very hard pill to swallow. But stranger things have happened. Who would have guessed that the GB would remove the need to report field service hours? I wouldn't have. So perhaps there may be a little room for optimism, after all.

37

If you were to design a new religion?

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

what the jw sect has become and is slowly becoming is far more near what i thought could be a good religion based on the bible.. no more counting hours and no more blindly following direction now they admit they are not inspired.. i would like to design a new sect inside the jws.

it has to be kept secret because the elders would not like it.. this new sect involves giving a tick every month or so saying you are still kindof active talking about the bible.. going to meetings occasionally and attending on zoom sometimes.

very rarely go to ministry groups but don’t ever do first call, just say you are doing street work and have a nice walk somewhere maybe the shops or the park.

no-zombie

I'd support a version of JW LITE if it looked something like this ...

1. If it supported and encouraged the development of a person's Christian conscience.
2. If it supported and encouraged personal Biblical research and free speech.
3. If it had a minimal organizational structure, that wasn't a worshiped identity.
4. If it moved the Governing Body and other Church leaders into the background.
5. If the Governing Body clearly admitted being an accomplice in covering up past child abuse claims, with a solid commitment to directly report new child abuse reports to the police (regardless of being mandated or not).
6. If the Governing Body clearly took responsibility teaching or procedural errors.
7. If it 'taught' core Biblical truths, while it 'offered' explanations and interpretations for less solid Bible concepts.
8. If it supported core biblical moral values (like no sex before marriage, non-heterosexual sexual activity, drunkenness or drug use).
9. If it supported the basic nuclear family, by discouraging (not banning) divorce as a solution to marital problems.
10. If it protected congregational members from those who practice serious sin, through a 'marking' arrangement rather than a 'disfellowshiping' arrangement.
11. If it supported and encouraged a strong social congregations, through fellowship and real external outreach programs.
12. If the Organization provided clear, open and fully transparent financial accountability, world wide.
13. If it allowed people to exit the Faith without punishment or shaming.

and finally ...

14. If JW LITE didn't end up being some kind of emotion driven megachurch or arm waving evangelical movement.

67

Real reasons behind this change?

by Gorb in

jw
friends

just a good conversation at home about the hour report change.. we think the change was not impmemented because the gb are such a lovely bunch of old grandpa's having the best in mind for us individuals.. there will be only, and we say only, an organizational reason for it.

a legal reason, to protect jw.org and it's officials and wealth.. next step?

maybe selling more kh and when jw hollywood studio's in rampoo are ready a change to tv subscription.. what do you think?

no-zombie

Vidiot ... you are right of course, but I'd add that its because of ignorance that devout Witnesses allow themselves to believe in the Governing Body.

I have learned that the more that a person really studies history (not just superficially skimming through it), the more a person understands that war, famine and pestilence are mankind's constant companions ... and in some ways, their appearances not chaotic at all.

There is a term used by historians and political commentators sometimes ... the long peace ... that helps to describe the peace the modern world has enjoyed under Pax Americana. It was real. But now that America is a declining empire, 'the dogs of war' are once again slipping their chains. Call it a power vacuum, a fourth turning (see Strauss–Howe), call it whatever, but the world goes a bit unstable at the end of a world power's domination. It happened at the end of all the classic world powers that we know of ... and it will happen again.

So in many ways it should be expected that the weak, the depressed and impressionable will begin to feel like they are drowning in fear and be full of anxiety over the future. And like any drowning man, they will naturally grab hold of anything floating around them, even if it is a piece of rotten old wood ... or a insincere religion.

45

List of main points from 2023 AGM

by ExBethelitenowPIMA in

1. doctrinal changes how new light comes about.

the gb raise questions then talk about it, unless it’s unanimous they wait, then years later talk again if it’s unanimous it then gets announced as new light.. 2. the gb are imperfect and sometimes make mistakes.

they are not to apologise or even admit they were wrong.

no-zombie

ExBethelitrnowPIMA ... can you explain your point below, a bit more?

"... now they are saying pretty much everyone will make it through and then during the 1000 year reign everyone can decide if they want to live in paradise ..."

thanks

24

This answers the question if the organization was going to go more Hardline or mainstream.

by nowwhat? in

looks like we can expect a kinder, gentler jehovah and jesus during the great tribulation.

the door will not be closed to all non jws at the start of the tribulation.

but will have time to repent after false religion is destroyed.

no-zombie

Maybe ... just may be ... this is the real reason why Tony M got the chop ... mmm.

24

This answers the question if the organization was going to go more Hardline or mainstream.

by nowwhat? in

looks like we can expect a kinder, gentler jehovah and jesus during the great tribulation.

the door will not be closed to all non jws at the start of the tribulation.

but will have time to repent after false religion is destroyed.

no-zombie

I'm with nowwhat? on this one.

Not because it really make much sense for the GB themselves and their power, or for those who have done the 110% in the Organization ... but only because going mainstream is the only chance the GB has in stopping the rot.

Of course this 'new light' trend needs to be continued; to elevate the power of an individual's conscience, to come clean and admit it had/has a child abuse problem, and modify the disfellowshiping rules into some kind of kinder arrangement.

While having a truly social religion would help in stemming the tide of young ones leaving, you have to ask if it is all a bit to late?

Only time will tell.

176

No more REPORTING field service!!!!!!!!!

by BoogerMan in

this is going to break the hearts of a lot of uber-jw's!

reddit has now removed the video link of samuel herd telling jw's they will no longer have to report time or placements - just tick a box which says "active.".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akdshyx79rm&t=13s.

no-zombie

While some people may think that this change is part some kind of master plan, I'd like to remind everyone that the GB have always made decisions reactivity and never proactively. Either have they demonstrated a collective wisdom that has amazed us. A great example of this was their multiple explanations of the 'overlapping generations' prophesies, which was stunning for all the wrong reasons. Rather I see this new reporting policy, as an attempt of GB Gen 3.0 (or what ever is the newest generation) to make their mark in steering the Society, to reverse the death dive trends, so clearly seen by all.

However, just as the move into the digital space, did not connect with younger people to build publisher numbers, you can be sure that while a few more people might start tick the field service box ... many, many will take the opportunity to stop witnessing all together.

Finally, it must be remembered, that no matter what the GB does, the quality of the Brotherhood will not change by this move ... and as the quantity of effective witnessing hours continues to decrease, so must the real number of new publishers.