Posts by apocalypse

55

RED ALERT FOR JULY 15TH STUDY on SUNDAY!

by The Searcher in

in the very first paragraph, matthew 13:38 is to be read - "the field is the world; as for the fine seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; but the weeds are the sons of the wicked one..".

jesus speaks of only two groups, so if you accept the wtbts "anointed" doctrine, then if you haven't got the "heavenly hope", then you've got no hope!.

simply put, there aren't any 'other sheep' members of jesus' "one flock" mentioned, unless of course theyare also "sons of the kingdom", but of course, that would be ridiculous!!.

apocalypse

Trying to figure out what I might say at today's Witchtower study. So much to choose from, but I think I'm going to try to use the charts. Point out somehow how the "slave" is appointed at death. Draw the two charts together. Well, even if I can't get a word in at the study, I am still going to use this over and over and over to disturb the dubbers. Such hypocrisy and contradiction cannot be let go by the wayside.

55

RED ALERT FOR JULY 15TH STUDY on SUNDAY!

by The Searcher in

in the very first paragraph, matthew 13:38 is to be read - "the field is the world; as for the fine seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; but the weeds are the sons of the wicked one..".

jesus speaks of only two groups, so if you accept the wtbts "anointed" doctrine, then if you haven't got the "heavenly hope", then you've got no hope!.

simply put, there aren't any 'other sheep' members of jesus' "one flock" mentioned, unless of course theyare also "sons of the kingdom", but of course, that would be ridiculous!!.

apocalypse

A sister asked me last Sunday what I thought about the Watchtower study. I gave her an earful. I explained that I have known this information for over 15 years. I bet she wasn't expecting that.

At dinner with a witness couple this week found the topic arise. So we discussed it. Again, they were not counting on what they heard.

Also this week, a sister, on the edge already, asked my wife about it. She heard some good points.

And tonight, another sister called my wife, and yup, she was confused about the whole thing. Specifically she said the charts were a nightmare. So another sister got to hear 'the word of truth'...

Now, Watchtower doesn't want anybody to talk about anything. Like Hitler did. Was Hitler successful? I think not.

Does Watchtower really think it can controll all the conversations everywhere? They are stinkin' daft.

To anyone out there who still goes to the hall or talks to witnesses, if you can highlight one simple thing to grind them.

Point out on the charts that the 'slave' get's its 'appointment' just before death.

It's right there in the charts. See my post above.

If you have time, add that they are 'appointed' over the preaching work only then, immediately before death. (see the Org. book)

So, once the preaching work is done, just before Armageddon, they get to take the lead in it! LOL... and DIE!

55

RED ALERT FOR JULY 15TH STUDY on SUNDAY!

by The Searcher in

in the very first paragraph, matthew 13:38 is to be read - "the field is the world; as for the fine seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; but the weeds are the sons of the wicked one..".

jesus speaks of only two groups, so if you accept the wtbts "anointed" doctrine, then if you haven't got the "heavenly hope", then you've got no hope!.

simply put, there aren't any 'other sheep' members of jesus' "one flock" mentioned, unless of course theyare also "sons of the kingdom", but of course, that would be ridiculous!!.

apocalypse

The biggest flopper in the Watchtower's new doctrine is revealed in the two separate charts. The blunder is easily pointed out to fellow dubs and a simple comment this Sunday could throw the entire congregation into a tizzy.

If you examine the chart from the first study (last week) on page 4,5 you will see that just prior to Armageddon there is a caption... "Jesus will appoint the faithful slave over all his belongings."

Moving to this coming Sunday's study, examination of the chart on page 10,11 shows that just prior to Armageddon the caption reads "SHINING BRIGHTLY ;Shortly before Armageddon, the remaining faithful annointed ones are gathered to the heavens.

So, the "slave" is appointed just prior to going to heaven. First, how is it that the "slave" is going to heaven? Will he ascend on a cloud in a 'rapture'.

On how the "slave" gets to heaven we don't have to go far. The Theocratic school for WEEK STARTING JULY 15

No. 2: (talk by sister)

Will Christ Appear Visibly on a Cloud and Then Take Away Faithful Christians Into the Heavens While the World Looks On?

— rs p. 313 1-3 (5 min.) *** rs p. 313-p. 315 Rapture ***

Will Christ appear visibly on a cloud and then take away faithful Christians into the heavens while the world looks on?

1 Cor. 15:50, RS: “I tell you this, brethren: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.”

Will faithful Christians perhaps be taken to heaven secretly, simply disappearing from the earth without dying?

Rom. 6:3-5, RS: “Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? . . . For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his.” (What occurred in the case of Jesus set the pattern. His disciples as well as others knew he had died. He was not restored to heavenly life until after his death and resurrection.)

1 Cor. 15:35, 36, 44, RS: “Some one will ask, ‘How are the dead raised? With what kind of body do they come?’ You foolish man! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. It is sown a physical body, it is raised a spiritual body.” (So death comes before one receives that spiritual body, does it not?)

Verse 15 explains that they are faithful ones “who are left until the coming of the Lord,” that is, they are still living at the time of Christ’s coming. Will they ever die? According to Romans 6:3-5 and 1 Corinthians 15:35, 36, 44 (quoted on pages 314, 315), they must die before they can gain heavenly life. But there is no need for them to remain in the death state awaiting Christ’s return. They will instantly be “caught up,” “in the twinkling of an eye,” to be with the Lord.—1 Cor. 15:51, 52, RS; also Revelation 14:13.

Comment for Sunday: "This is very exciting here to see that the "slave" is appointed over all Christ's belongings and then dies."

It's interesting to note what page's 15,16 of the Organization book says. That's chapter 3, the holy grail of Watchtowerdom. It say's "That slave would be entrusted with oversight of Kingdom interests on Earth..." "What, then, are the "belongings"? These are the spiritual assets on earth... Included are facilities... also embrace the commision to preach..."

So, why the hell would Jesus appoint them over everything on earth just before they drop dead?

66

If you were to protest an Assembly what would you put on your placard ?

by Finkelstein in

since this topic of protesting assemblies recently came up, i was wondering .

what would be the some of the most proficient and perhaps strongest message.

to place on a placard to show as the people arrived at the venue.

apocalypse

" Show the direct contradictions in recent literature..."

....In my opinion, a waste of time. They are not listening. The Jews in Jesus' day were not listening either. So, send in the Romans!

What get's JW's to sit up and take notice, is when everybody else is listening. THAT is hard to ignore.

So, when the dubbers see John Q. Public reading "the worldwide slaughter" of all non-JWs, and how "only JW's will survive" etc, then John Q. Public stares down the dubs, and dubbies crawl into their shell.

What's that dubbers... you want out of your hole? Maybe it's time to read.

66

If you were to protest an Assembly what would you put on your placard ?

by Finkelstein in

since this topic of protesting assemblies recently came up, i was wondering .

what would be the some of the most proficient and perhaps strongest message.

to place on a placard to show as the people arrived at the venue.

apocalypse

Now you're talkin'.... JW's are conditioned. There's only so much you can do with them. But.... if you embarass them in public, using their own bullsHip propaganda, then you've got something.

Fight fire with fire. Use Watchtower against them. There's so many embarassing things that JW's don't -on an individual basis- want the public, especially their neighbors, to see.

66

If you were to protest an Assembly what would you put on your placard ?

by Finkelstein in

since this topic of protesting assemblies recently came up, i was wondering .

what would be the some of the most proficient and perhaps strongest message.

to place on a placard to show as the people arrived at the venue.

apocalypse

What would I put up on placards? Simple. Watchtower. Yep. Gobs and gobs of it. Starting with "...only Jehovah's Witnesses will be saved", "....your children will also die" ".... wholsale slaughter of the wicked".... There's so many good Watchtower quotes to chose from.

The key to affecting the JW's is not to try to pump into their tiny minds some facet of the REAL TRUTH. Nope. That's wasted effort. What one needs to do is to help the public at large see what is under the whitewash. I say, walk into the funural home during the ceremony and "key the casket". Let the grieving see the real thing. White paint gone, and dead men's bones revealed.

The passing dubs will be so nervous you can't imagine. I've seen this prove effective on a level you've not known. They talked about it in the Kingdom Hall even though they were warned not to. Then brothers talked about it from the platform, both at the Kingdom Hall and also at conventions. They can't help but to talk.

OUT THEM! Out them but good. See how much they are willing to defend the mighty WIZARDS OF ORG. Watch instead how ashamed they become when the PUBLIC is reading the placards. Oh yeah... and throw in a JW Facts poster just in case one of the poor battered sheep wakes up when this slams them but good.

Jesus said, let the blind lead the blind, both will fall into the pit. So, my approach is to dig as many Watchtower pits as I can. Mayby they will wake up when they hit the dirt at the pit's bottom. If not, then let them wallow in the mud down there till they starve.

100

Upcoming KM!! Why we are not False Prophets!

by DATA-DOG in

this subject is coming up this month in the tms.

i just thought i would start a post for newbies or lurkers.

if you have any scans of the awake inside cover that would be awesome.

apocalypse

I got baptised in February, right after that article. A bunch of us did. The end was nigh, so very nigh. Ahhh...

I actually have three copies of the original study article from Jan 1, 89. Underlined from that Sunday morning study.

I have the elders visiting very soon for a "meeting".... let's see what they have to say. But, I will, off the cuff, throw it out there that 'we expected the preaching to be done 13 years ago'... I will bait them.

I hope they take the bait.

55

Being pressured and getting increasingly stressed.

by NBird in

hello, i'm a 17 year old born in and i'm done with this religion.

one hundred percent.

i came to the conclusion a year ago that i wanted to leave.

apocalypse

Stand back and take a good look at watchtower baptism as see it for what it is, then you have no trouble not getting baptised. Read Matt 28:19, 20 and then listen to another baptism talk. There is no mention made of the father son and holy spirit. Jesus made a direct command and yet watchtower wants no part of it. Watchtower baptism is invalid.

25

Can one person make a difference? Need your help please.

by apocalypse in

i am feeling a bit out of sorts & i need to bounce this off the board.. do some of you remember the coming out of the un scandal back when?.

have you seen the letter from the un in c of c?.

i am sitting here with that original letter in my hand.. the day before the date on this letter, i had heard about the watchtower involvement on hourglass2.

apocalypse

I have read and pondered all the responses here. I am also keeping abreast of what is happening with the new anti-watchtower movement.

My belief that 'one can make a difference' has been bolstered. But I must acknowledge a few facts.

First, since I was in a situation where I couldn't receive the UN letter at my home, how would I get it? I was using a post office box to get my books from Ray Franz. Could I use that? I fear that Paul may have been reluctant to work that way. Fortunately, there was Hawkaw. He filled the slot gladly. So, I wasn't left alone. Also, as Hawkaw later told me, Paul was backpeddling somewhat. But Hawk leaned on him. Made sure he was on board.

So, if I was left to being just 'one', I suppose after more time I, or somewone else, could have done an Erin Brockovich. http://www.brockovich.com/ But more time would have gone by. It might not have worked out the way it did.

Second, it was the threat of multitudes, 'myriads and myriads of brothers' telephone calls and emails and snail mails that worked as a motivator.

So, I guess I was never really alone. However, if we all took the attitude that 'somebody else' can do it, then nothing would have happened.

And if Norm wouldn't have done the leg-work and found out about watchtower's betrayal of us all in the first place, " then we would all be speakin' " watchtower.

So, is there room for a group of some kind? I would say so. I think so. But what shape will it take.

When the good people of Stratton Ohio were moving against watchtower, trying to force the dubs to wear ID badges, I called the lawyers down there. I told them that they had to do it right, because they are not fighting amatures. I told the lawyers that they didn't understand watchtower, that they needed to do the legwork, understand the past court battles, and definitely have input from those who have lived watchtower.

So, those lawyers lost miserably. No surprise there. Why? Because they had no humility. They were too big for their britches. And they wasted their time and money.

What I see with the anti-wt group is alot like what I saw in the lawyers of Stratton Ohio. They will waste their time. Many will be alienated. And people will be saddened with an opportunity lost.

25

Can one person make a difference? Need your help please.

by apocalypse in

i am feeling a bit out of sorts & i need to bounce this off the board.. do some of you remember the coming out of the un scandal back when?.

have you seen the letter from the un in c of c?.

i am sitting here with that original letter in my hand.. the day before the date on this letter, i had heard about the watchtower involvement on hourglass2.

apocalypse

Thanks for the responses. Remember though, that the the very first letter, the one that is now in CofC is what Hawkaw and I worked on. It is snail mail, a hardcopy.

The letter that went up on the UN website was the upgrade. It was prepared later and for electronic dissemination. It was even more specific and was a rebuttal to Watchtower's lies.

Watchtower said that they never agreed to the Criteria of Association for NGO's and of course the reason for that denial is plain, namely they would have had to agree in writing to the "principals and ideals" of the UN Charter. (hawkaw's work getting this, he is a bright fella having recognized this fact)

So, Watchtower lied to the UN, claiming to agree to the principals and all that, but of course we all know Watchtower. Then they lied to all of us about the formal agreeing to the Criteria of Assoc.

Paul Hoeffel asked that the first letter be disseminated to all who needed the confirmation, and of course we spread it wherever we could on the interent. But you all out there kept on calling the UN unrelentingly, the demands for specifics being more detailed after some had written the Watchtower for a comment and recieved Watchtower lies.

So the continued phone calls to the UN created a need for the more detailed document right on the UN website. For that I give a big high5 to everyone out there who participated. (a one, the another one, then one one one one one)

Just recently, I uploaded for dissemination, the correspondence emails that were ongoing between Stephen Bates (writer for The Guardian) and 'Brother' Gillies (Watchtower mouth) as I was in contact with Mr Bates during the big blowup. Mr Bates gladly provided me the correspondence. It is now on jwfacts along with my personal comments of the time. http://www.jwfacts.com/pdf/un-correspondence-bates-gilles.pdf

To the Watchtower claim that watchtower was glad to have had this matter "brought to their attention", one has but to read the emails flying back and forth to understand the "veracity" of watchotwer statements. (I thank jwfacts for putting it up on their site.)

I am feeling that one CAN make a difference. If one can, then do we need a big organization to go head to head with Watchtower? Call it whatever, but do we need one? If not a "need", then 'is there room' for one? Is it necessarily a bad thing?

I personally believe that one must have love in their heart as a motivator for any of this work. And if that, then humility must play a part.

I don't think it's enough to bulldoze Watchtower. Not that I wouldn't like to see bulldozers levelling the Watchtower. If I would see that, I would say "yep, that's about right". (smile)

But I feel that any effort, if many would want to become involved together as a unit, this would have to be because we LOVE people, and JWs are people. I am still attending meetings, where I have to. I fake service. I am even serving the congregation if you can imagine it. (take that watchtower)

Yes, after all these years. Why, because I am helping to hold family together. And while I am in Watchtower camp, I try to help people out. And I have helped some. I have one young 'brother' presently who has asked about the "UN thing" and he want's to see the letter.

He must know a fair bit. I am not sure all of what he knows, but when I said to him that "certain relationships were cultivated that should never have been cultivated", he came right back with "you mean the UN thing"?? and I asked "you know about that"?? So I begain my work, hoping to help him and promised to keep it between us as his "wife doesn't know"... Sound all too familiar?

Why am I helping him? Well, I love him, and anyone else who wants to better understand. To possibly be free.

Whatever is done, let's try to keep love out front. Is a name starting with "anti" going to be the best we can do?