Posts by fjtoth

49

How Does the WT Explain this verse

by XBEHERE in

(john 2:18-22) 18 therefore, in answer, the jews said to him: "what sign have you to show us, since you are doing these things?

" 19 in answer jesus said to them: "break down this temple, and in three days i will raise it up.

" 20 therefore the jews said: "this temple was built in forty-six years, and will you raise it up in three days?

fjtoth

Hellrider,

Somewhere you lost me. You said that a person "can`t pick and choose verses when you want to create an overall doctrine." It appears to me that you are guilty of what you accuse another of doing. You have one verse placed side by side with 22 verses, and your preference is to stick to the one and ignore the 22. I'd say that's picking and choosing.

You also have bypassed the illustration "tijkmo" gave up above from Ezekiel 43:3. The Bible often credits agents of God with accomplishing what only God himself can do.

I think it's important to understand what Jesus meant when he spoke of his "body" as God's temple. He did not say he is God. He said his body is God's temple. Biblically, a temple is a sanctuary or dwelling place for God. It is not God himself, but the place where he resides. The body of every Christian is such a temple, according to 1 Corinthians 3:16: "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?" The same point is made at 2 Corinthians 6:16, that "ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people."

Just as Christ was raised from the dead, so his followers will be raised from the dead. Who does the raising? Is it God, or is it the person whose body is God's temple? I believe the answer is found at 1 Thessalonians 4:14: "We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him."

My appeal to anyone, trinitarian and non-trinitarian alike, is to do as you recommend: "You have to take all of them [passages that bear on a subject] into consideration." Don't let one verse have the final say. Take them all into consideration. I sincerely believe I tried to do that here.

Frank

61

Should you believe in the Trinity?

by 1ofhissheep in

hey, i am new to this site and looking into the jw faith and watchtower.

i have currently been studying what was written in the "should you believe in the trinity?

" publication found at watchtower.org .

fjtoth

What puzzles me is why trinitarians are willing to search high and low for a suitable illustration of God, such as a rainbow, and then turn right around and deny the clear illustration that 1 + 1 + 1 does not equal 1. By the way, a rainbow is not a living being such as God is, and the various bands of a rainbow are not persons such as the members of the Trinity are said to be. No wonder the Bible quotes God as saying, "To whom then will ye liken God? or what likeness will ye compare unto him?" (Isaiah 40:18)

I'm not arguing against the Trinity. I'm just questioning why people come up with weird illustrations that can be shot full of holes when they are trying to tell us that God is not One Person but that He is Three Persons.

Frank

49

How Does the WT Explain this verse

by XBEHERE in

(john 2:18-22) 18 therefore, in answer, the jews said to him: "what sign have you to show us, since you are doing these things?

" 19 in answer jesus said to them: "break down this temple, and in three days i will raise it up.

" 20 therefore the jews said: "this temple was built in forty-six years, and will you raise it up in three days?

fjtoth

Who raised Jesus from the dead? Did God do it, or did Jesus raise himself?

Acts 2:24: God raised him from the dead.
Acts 2:32: God has raised this Jesus to life.
Acts 3:15: God raised him from the dead.
Acts 4:10: whom God raised from the dead
Acts 5:30: The God of our fathers raised Jesus from the dead.
Acts 10:40: God raised him from the dead.
Acts 13:30: God raised him from the dead.
Acts 13:34: God raised him from the dead.
Acts 13:37: the one whom God raised from the dead
Acts 17:30-31: He [God] has given proof of this to all men by raising him [Jesus] from the dead.
Romans 4:24: him [God] who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead
Romans 6:4: Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father
Romans 10:9: God raised him from the dead
1 Corinthians 6:14: By his power God raised the Lord from the dead.
1 Corinthians 15:15: we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead
2 Corinthians 4:14: the one [God] who raised the Lord Jesus from the dead will also raise us with Jesus
Galatians 1:1: God the Father, who raised him from the dead
Ephesians 1:20: he [God] raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand
Colossians 2:12: God, who raised him from the dead.
1 Thessalonians 1:10: wait for his Son from heaven, whom he [God] raised from the dead
1 Peter 1:21: God, who raised him from the dead and glorified him

25

Demonstrations against the WTBTS - Get on with your life.

by breeze in

you guys that are so obsessed with the wtbts and their future.

just stop it and get onto doing something positive with your life.

give back sometheng to your community and the world we are in for now.

fjtoth

Just stop it and get onto doing something positive with your life.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)

Have some fun, drink sing and live, for there may not be a tomorrow.

Sounds more like giving to oneself instead of to the community.

There is no evidence that any of the Bible stories are really true

That depends upon who you listen to. Thousands of scholarly books have been written in defense of the Bible.

Frank

3

Mark Nevejans paases away (from Bethel/Franz era)

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

i was very sad to hear of this, mark was one of the ba's at bethel during the franz incident, and a good guy!

he died of brain cancer, a friend who was at bethel just told me via email.

randy.

fjtoth

I knew Mark too. I weep due to the loss of such a fine person. When I heard at Bethel that he had left "the Truth," I was disappointed. Like many others, I assumed he had engaged in too much "independent thinking" and had gone off the deep end. There were many hateful things said about him by Bethelites who hardly knew him.

Years later, after my eyes were opened, Mark was one of those I most wanted to run into again, but I had no idea where he might be.

Mark was a diligent worker at Bethel. He was intelligent, bright, generally cheerful and a genuine friend to many.

Frank

2

For Frank

by mouthy in

jw
friends

dan is trying to reach you your e-mail is returned

fjtoth

For Mouthy and anybody else who's interested:

My new email address is [email protected]. My old Sprint address is kaput. My xJW website is at http://formerjw.homestead.com.

Frank

26

Punishing GB members, COs and elders

by greendawn in

jw
friends

how do you think the gb members along with the cos and elders should be punished for the way they emotionally and spiritually abuse and hurt the flocks of the naive r&f?

fjtoth

110

WT desparate: Aug 15 WT- In Our Next Issue: When A Loved One Leaves Jehovah

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

no, i don't have this article yet, it will appear in the sep 1, 2006 wt.

it may even be a wt study article.. in the august 15 watchtower, the box "in our next issue" has three forthcoming articles, and one of them is "when a loved one leaves jehovah".

of interest, it's not when a loved one leaves the society, it's jehovah.. will keep you posted.

fjtoth

Wouldn't if be highly ironic if these Moses-like elders are banned from Paradise/heaven because of all these man-made rules they have made that are not of Jehovah?

8

Matt. 10:35

by gspradling in

my jw mom always uses this verse to justify her distance from me and my family.

i have never been able to come up with a reasonable response to her.

does anyone have any good suggestions?

fjtoth

According to Jesus, the ones responsible for the division are the ones who are in the wrong. He mentions a sword in verse 34. The ones using the "sword" to cut off others from their association have the spirit of division, not the spirit of peace. In verses 21-23 he said that "brother will deliver up brother to death, and a father his child, and children will rise up against parents and will have them put to death. And you will be objects of hatred by all people on account of my name; but he that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved."

Those most like the evil persecutors are Jehovah's Witnesses who drive their brothers and other relatives away by means of their disfellowshipping policy. They demonstrate that they have made the disfellowshipped and disassociated ones the object of hatred by shunning them as evildoers, not even smiling or saying hello to them.

110

WT desparate: Aug 15 WT- In Our Next Issue: When A Loved One Leaves Jehovah

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

no, i don't have this article yet, it will appear in the sep 1, 2006 wt.

it may even be a wt study article.. in the august 15 watchtower, the box "in our next issue" has three forthcoming articles, and one of them is "when a loved one leaves jehovah".

of interest, it's not when a loved one leaves the society, it's jehovah.. will keep you posted.

fjtoth

Guess I got the point of the magazine article. Isn't that what they want, that we understand the material?

Yes, you got the point. But please don't explain it better than the literature. This just might disturb the sensibilities of the brothers and sisters. It might also be that you are making an attempt to step ahead of the organization. BEWARE! You are placing yourself in a dangerous position where you just might be struck by gigantic bolts from out of the blue!