Posts by fjtoth

7675 · 2006-10-11T09:48:00Z

Hubert,

There is a copy of the tract at

http://www.reachouttrust.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1238&sid=2735405d19118fa81f75bc8f0f307185

Frank

7675 · 2006-10-11T09:37:00Z

7675 · 2006-10-11T09:33:00Z

Another JW wrote:

I want to mention two important things . . . In the middle of October, Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide will be actively involved in a special campaign. We will be making a deligent effort to visit each and every household in the world to leave a tract entitled, " THE END OF FALSE RELIGION IS NEAR !" No, this isn't about what some feel is doom and gloom. Rather, this offers insight as to . . . the destruction of FALSE RELIGION . It . . . calls for action on our part to remove ourselves from false religion and find refuge in the confines of TRUE WORSHIP. I hope that if you are home and receive a copy of this free tract, you will use this opportunity to question the Witness visiting your door. Tell them if you have any concerns or differences with what we teach and believe. This special campaign only lasts for 4 weeks. If you don't receive one, I can personally send one to you, if you request it. You can request it early enough before I distribute all of mine.

Secondly, ALL JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES WILL BE STUDYING THE BOOK OF REVELATION VERSE BY VERSE BEGINNING IN JANUARY 2007. THE PUBLIC IS WARMLY INVITED TO JOIN US FOR THIS IN-DEPTH DISCUSSION OF THE BIBLE BOOK THAT MANY PERSONS FIND SO CONFUSING. IF YOU ARE INTERESTED IN OBTAINING A FREE COPY OF THE TEXTBOOK THAT WILL BE USED, PLEASE REQUEST ONE FROM MYSELF, THE LOCAL CONGREGATION OF JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES, OR BY GOING TO OUR OFFICAL WEBSITE AT: http://www.watchtower.org.

Nevertheless , I hope that you all have a great day .

With you in my mind and prayers ....Frances

7675 · 2006-10-11T08:13:00Z

Here's what a JW wrote about the new tract:

Larry, . . .

God's witnesses are about to spread a message worldwide to the people's of the earth in a consecrated effort to warn mankind of what is upon them today. . . . there are millions invovled in it in over 235 lands and islands of the earth. . . .

This message that will commence in October in the middle of it will be given by over 6 million people as a witness to the earth. It is one of others that are coming, hard-hitting direct messages to the people of the earth. You will see these things take place.

I have the tract in my hand as I write this. In big bold letters are written the words: "THE END OF FALSE RELIGION IS NEAR!" on the front cover and will capture the attention of all whom it reaches.

The message will clearly show the difference between false and true religion. For example inside it it states:

False Religion....
MEDDLES IN WAR AND POLITICS
SPREADS FALSE DOCTRINE
TOLERATES IMMORAL SEX

While on the back cover we are shown what true religion produces:
PRACTICES LOVE
TRUSTS GOD'S WORD
STRENGTHENS FAMILIES AND UPHOLDS HIGH MORAL STANDARDS.

You will perhaps see this message in the coming months along with other hard-hitting messages of truth that will indeed shake the inhabited earth.

True it will be as an irritant to the majority and they will blaspheme God because of it, but it is a warning message and God's witnesses, his true servants will have to spread it.

Where will you stand at this time so close to the end. Only so little time is left.

Regards,
Victrix
PS: Hundreds of millions of these tracts are now awaiting to to be spread throughout the world.

They will reach a far larger population than any media will be able to reach, even though no media will cover the event.

7675 · 2006-10-11T01:16:00Z

PHOTOSHOP is much too expensive. Instead, get a free copy of GIMP by downloading it at the following website:

http://www.download.com/The-GIMP/3000-2192_4-10073935.html

There are also other websites from which you can download GIMP.

GIMP can do just about everything that PHOTOSHOP can do.

Another great free program for enlarging or reducing the size of graphics files is IRFANVIEW. You can download it at http://www.irfanview.com/.

Frank

7675 · 2006-10-08T15:38:00Z

How can anyone forgive a cold-blooded murderer of helpless little girls who can no longer speak for themselves? The murderer needs THEIR forgiveness, and they haven't given it because they can't, and no one but God can speak for them. The Bible says God does not forgive such persons, for they will not gain entrance into Christ's Kingdom. (Galatians 5:19-21) The girls very likely had no feelings of forgiveness as they were about to be mercilessly slaughtered, and it is highly unlikely they were in a mood to forgive such a horrible deed the moment they breathed their last.

Jesus and Stephen forgave as they were being murdered for their religious faith, but their situation was monumentally different. Jesus and Stephen amazingly were able to take the position that their killers were ignorant and were under the delusion that they were doing the will of God. But the murderer of these children killed because of a grudge and it was pre-meditated for many days, a grudge that has nothing in it that cries out for grace, mercy and forgiveness.

Genuine forgiveness would allow this murderer to go unpunished if he had lived. The Bible on the other hand gives the warning: "Because the sentence against an evil deed is not executed quickly, therefore the hearts of the sons of men among them are given fully to do evil." (Ecclesiastes 8:11)

7675 · 2006-10-06T07:23:00Z

Lilly,

Now I am not a bible reader? Because I asked a question for some research? Please refrain from making personal judgements about people you do not know anything about. If you read many of my posts on this forum you will see ample scriptures used. You are a Christian correct? Then act like one.

I did not accuse you of not being a Bible reader. Maybe you're getting a bit tired and touchy. I merely explained why it should not be necessary to have an angel mentioned in every case where we are told that God himself spoke to someone in pre-Christian times. Acceptance of Hebrews 2:2, 3 should also suffice. However, I do believe you have a problem with your Bible reading. The Bible says God spoke through angels and prophets. Nowhere does it say he spoke through Jesus. Though there is not a single verse in the entire Bible that indicates God spoke through Jesus, that is what you want to believe. As I said, you have freedom to believe that if you want to, but it is a groundless belief. It is something the Watchtower teaches, but it has no basis in the Bible.

it is you trying to prove I am wrong by ignoring any of my questions and making accusations that are not true.

I believe I have tried earnestly to answer every question you have asked. Tell me which one(s) I ignored. I'm of the impression you are not carefully reading my answers since you keep repeating the same point over and over, no matter how I try to approach it with a simple answer.

Will you please forget Hebrews for one single second

This, I believe is the real crux of your problem. When the Bible gives you a plain, easy-to-understand answer, you don't want to accept it because it conflicts with what you want to believe.

why is there nothing attributed to him in word or deed in the old testament?

Why does there have to be something attributed to him in the OT? The focus of the OT is on God, not on anyone else. There are many prophecies concerning the Messiah, and I think that should be sufficient for us.

And the OT writers wrote a lot about heaven and God and conversations with God and YET Jesus is totally absent.

Where are all these OT comments about what takes place in heaven?

You and I have gone on and on about your view of who spoke for God in the OT. I will not change my mind from what the Scriptures say. I believe you also have no intentions of changing your thinking, despite what the Bible says. So I'm getting more and more of the opinion that the discussion is going to end as useless and fruitless. I want to assure you that my motive here is to help, not to be antagonistic. I'm answering your questions the best I know how. I may upset you because I'm trying to get right to the point rather than utilizing many words. I'm sorry for not doing a better job at trying to come across as a friend.

Sincerely,

Frank

7675 · 2006-10-06T06:35:00Z

Jeff,

JWs teach that Jesus was the archangel Michael, and Trinitarians ridicule them for that. Aren't you doing what the JWs do by saying God lowered himself to the station of an angel?

I don't understand theophanies in the way that you do. Angels claimed to be God himself because they were his agents, sent by him to speak and act for him. Solomon acknowledged that 'the heaven of the heavens cannot contain God, much less the temple on earth.' So it appears contradictory to me to say in one breath that God is as great as Solomon said but in another breath to say that he has come down here and literally appeared to men and women. Not always, but most of the time within the context, an angel is identified as the real speaker when we read about God speaking personally with humans. Lilly's problem, as I see it, is that she wants the context to mention an angel in every case. That should not be necessary since a Bible reader in time gets to see the normal pattern that occurs.

The idea that Christ came and spoke with humans in pre-Christian times is not allowed by Hebrews 1:1, 2, and other passages.

Frank

7675 · 2006-10-06T06:07:00Z

Lilly,

I clearly said the words in Daniel and Revelation are not exactly the same

I agree, and I'm sorry for misreading you on that point.

It is such a simple question I asked and so far only Mondo has given me any answer.

Your "simple" question was not a question. It was a dogmatic statement:

Jesus is in the OT many times it is just that he was not given the name Jesus until his birth on earth. Some ancient people who saw and spoke with the pre-human Jesus were Daniel, Isaiah, King David, Abraham and I know there were others.

Despite my efforts to show that your belief is not Bible-based, you feel inclined to hold to it. You have freedom to make that choice, but don't get upset just because I prefer the Bible's clear statement on the matter and because I've tried to help you to see there is a better way than the one you've chosen.

Sincerely,

Frank

7675 · 2006-10-06T05:51:00Z

Mondo,

One thing to keep in mind is that the basic meaning of "angels" is messengers, so to say that God spoke by various messengers would not exclude the son.

Shouldn't we also keep in mind that Hebrews 1 does "exclude the son"? The Son did not speak "in past times." He spoke "in these last days."

First Peter 1:20 says: "He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you." Christ was not "manifest" to men before "these last times" but during "these last times." Why is there this seeming insistence that the Bible writers may have been wrong about this?

1 Corinthians 10:1-4 seems to indicate that the one that lead them was Jesus.

Verse 4 states: "And all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ." The Israelites drank from a literal rock, so the language of this verse is obviously symbolic or allegorical. There are many passages that show that the Israelites were looking forward to the Messiah. They ate manna, literal food provided from God in heaven, and Jesus said that this anticipated him as "the true bread from heaven." He said concerning himself, "This is the bread which came down out of heaven; not as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live forever." (John 6:58)

Just as the manna was a sign pointing to Christ, so was the rock that supplied water. The rock and manna were symbolic of supernatural sustenance through Christ, who is the bread of life and the water of life. (John 4:14; 6:30-35) That true manna and true water were not yet present in the days of Moses, and the proof is in the fact that all those partakers eventually died, in addition to the fact that the water and bread in their case were literal.

I think you are mixing up God speaking by the prophets with the means that God used to speak by the prophets.

Then I suppose the writer of Hebrews was also mixing things up. When he said God began speaking in these last days by means of his Son, he should have written more clearly. That is what you seem to be saying. The means in times past were angels, but you and Lilly feel the means was also God's Son. There isn't a verse in the Bible that says that, but that is what it seems you want to believe. By contrast with what you believe, the Scripture plainly says that the means became God's own Son "in these last days," not before.

Frank

fjtoth

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