Posts by fjtoth
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218The Duality -- The Father and The Son
by UnDisfellowshipped indo jehovah's witnesses believe in two gods or one god?
do they believe in a "duality"?
do jehovah's witnesses and/or the angels worship jesus christ?.
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218
The Duality -- The Father and The Son
by UnDisfellowshipped indo jehovah's witnesses believe in two gods or one god?
do they believe in a "duality"?
do jehovah's witnesses and/or the angels worship jesus christ?.
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218
The Duality -- The Father and The Son
by UnDisfellowshipped indo jehovah's witnesses believe in two gods or one god?
do they believe in a "duality"?
do jehovah's witnesses and/or the angels worship jesus christ?.
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fjtoth
Undisf'd,
You're going to call this an ad hominem attack, but I've got to tell it like it is. All you want to do is fight over words. You should know without having to go to the dictionary that some words have a variety of meanings. But now you are insisting that "superiority" ALWAYS means "important"! Why am I wasting my breath with you? As I said above, you're only interested in arguing and fighting over words. I thought you were a sincere Christian wanting to grow as the rest of us do in understanding the Bible. But I have to say that I see you very differently now. Our discussion tonight has opened my eyes and mind to the games you like to play. Discussions like we are having tonight go absolutely nowhere even if engaged in for years.
Frank
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218
The Duality -- The Father and The Son
by UnDisfellowshipped indo jehovah's witnesses believe in two gods or one god?
do they believe in a "duality"?
do jehovah's witnesses and/or the angels worship jesus christ?.
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fjtoth
Undisf'd,
Here is another distortion of yours. You insist on applying what the Scriptures say about the foundations of the church to the teachings of the church. That is highly absurd! What can I do to make you understand that the two are not one and the same? Perhaps I'll submit a cartoon to show you the difference, but this should not be necessary. Why can't you see that the foundations are persons, not teachings, as if some teachings in the Bible can be questioned. You like to run to references like the dictionary and Wikipedia, etc., but why aren't you then more careful with the meaning of terms when you use them?
You quoted from the Jaimieson, Fausset, and Brown Commentary, thinking that it supports your claim when it absolutely does not. The Commentary is discussing the foundations of the church, not its teachings. It says, according to your quote:
As one with Him and His fellow workers, they, too, in a secondary sense, are called “foundations”
The compilers of the Commentary would be appalled to discover that their words are being used out of context. Your twisting of words is no better than saying Secondary School Children are Secondary Citizens. Why can't you see the difference? Do you really believe deep down in your heart that God approves of this strange opinion that you have? Do you think you make his heart glad by making it seem that some parts of the Bible are important but other parts can be treated with a grain of salt, as it were?
I'm finding it hard to take you seriously. I think you get an opinion fixated in your mind due to emotion, and then you stick with it no matter what facts are presented to you.
Nowhere is there an indication in the Bible that some of God's Word can be treated lightly, as you've tried to illustrate by distorting the meaning of various verses, even saying that there are myths and endless geneologies within its pages.
Your views, if widely heard, would cause grief to the hearts of many who love God and who hold his Word in high regard.
Frank
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218
The Duality -- The Father and The Son
by UnDisfellowshipped indo jehovah's witnesses believe in two gods or one god?
do they believe in a "duality"?
do jehovah's witnesses and/or the angels worship jesus christ?.
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fjtoth
Undisf'd,
I hate to say it in view of your nice apology, but you are still being quite irrational. You just want to argue over words, it seems. When I used the word "superiority," I did not have in mind "more important," and you know it! In fact, I pointed out that nothing could have been of greater value to those under the Law than obedience, since disobedience could have resulted in eternal death. Disobedience to Christ also means death for the unrepentant. But the message of the New Testament that was preached first by Jesus and his apostles and prophets, introduced immortality, something the Law had not mentioned. Yes, that makes it superior, but it doesn't make it more important, depending upon when a person lived and whether it was under the Law or under the Law of Christ.
You're just trying to make mountains out of molehills, as I said before. Instead of getting down to the basics as to who Jesus really is in comparison with the Father, you want to waste away your time and mine over trivialities. Well, go ahead and have your fun. I'll still wait around in the weeks to come to see how you deal with my rebuttals.
Frank
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218
The Duality -- The Father and The Son
by UnDisfellowshipped indo jehovah's witnesses believe in two gods or one god?
do they believe in a "duality"?
do jehovah's witnesses and/or the angels worship jesus christ?.
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fjtoth
Undisf'd,
Here is another example of your irrational behavior tonight:
If I had decided to post my comments on your older posts, would you then have complained because I had not yet responded to your latest posts tonight?
Where do you find the slightest hint that this is the sort of thing I do? Fess up, buddy! You know you're ranting and raving over nothing. You did say you were going to give consideration to my rebuttal. But tonight you seem to be more interested in other things.
Frank
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218
The Duality -- The Father and The Son
by UnDisfellowshipped indo jehovah's witnesses believe in two gods or one god?
do they believe in a "duality"?
do jehovah's witnesses and/or the angels worship jesus christ?.
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fjtoth
Undisf'd,
You wrote:
I agree 100% with Paul's statement at 2 Timothy 3:16-17. Paul did not say that all Scripture was of equal importance.
This is what I've been driving at from the beginning. You say out of one side of your mouth that the entire Bible is so important to us because it came to us from God himself. In other words, nothing that anybody says could be more important than what the Bible tells us. God breathed out every word of it.
But out of the other side of your mouth you say some parts of what God gave us are not so important.
This all started because I wanted to know if you will give equal weight to anything I quote from the Bible, or will you dismiss it because it doesn't meet with your standards. I didn't use those words, but you know that's what I meant. So you've answered my question.
I can see that as we proceed through this discussion, you are going to accept only what you want to accept from the Bible. This is because you are going to set yourself upon God's throne and decide for both of us just what is acceptable and what is not. Very interesting.
You wrote:
I would like to know exactly which of my statements tonight would be considered "wild opinions," and what exactly you mean by "wild opinions."
For one thing, your distortions of what I've previously said. If you're going to say I said this or that, please be sure you're telling it straight. You know, just for one example, that I never wrote that Gabriel "contradicted" Jesus. Will you be honest enough to admit that you were wrong about that? You also wrote that I said the words of salvation and immortality were "more important" than what the Law taught.
But basically, the whole tenor of your come on tonight is highly irrational. I'm not going to take up a lot of time refuting all the wrong interpretations you are giving to verses you are quoting, because I think you know better. To suggest, for example, that Paul was writing about "myths" and "endless geneaologies" within the pages of the Bible is quite absurd, and I think you should know that.
Frank
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218
The Duality -- The Father and The Son
by UnDisfellowshipped indo jehovah's witnesses believe in two gods or one god?
do they believe in a "duality"?
do jehovah's witnesses and/or the angels worship jesus christ?.
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fjtoth
Undisf'd,
Where are you coming from tonight? All I'm reading is one distortion after another. You wrote:
You yourself above in this thread said that Hebrews chapter 2 was comparing Jesus' words about salvation and immortality with the angels' words (which you said was the Mosaic Law), and that Jesus' words about salvation and immortality were more important than the Mosaic Law.
I nowhere said that the words of salvation and immortality were more important than the Mosaic Law that was given by the angel of the Lord. Please read what I wrote carefully, instead of repeatedly misquoting me.
Frank
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218
The Duality -- The Father and The Son
by UnDisfellowshipped indo jehovah's witnesses believe in two gods or one god?
do they believe in a "duality"?
do jehovah's witnesses and/or the angels worship jesus christ?.
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fjtoth
Undisf'd,
You wrote:
To me, that is an obvious, unbelievable contradiction. If you care to explain how those two statements are not contradictions, be my guest.
May I submit that I'm glad you qualified your statement by introducing it with "To me." There is no "obvious, unbelievable contradiction." Not all Bible believers view John 17:5 the way you do. Even some Trinitarians disagree with your view. I haven't explained my view of that text, so I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill here. As I said earlier, I wish to keep within the theme of this thread and not go off into other directions, which is where a thorough discussion of John 17:5 will take us. I think you agreed that we should stay within the thread. You also agreed that you would begin an examination of my rebuttals to your long essays. I'm waiting.
You wrote:
Now you are trying to change what you originally said. You originally said that Gabriel said Jesus was NOT GREAT BEFORE HE WAS BORN. You did not originally say "He was not great AT the time of his conception and birth." You said He was not great BEFORE His birth. Why the change?
I think you need to take a breath or something. I changed nothing, except that I added "at the time of his ... birth." When Gabriel gave his prophecy regarding the future greatness of Jesus, he was speaking before Jesus' conception and before his birth. If you read Gabriel's words carefully, you will know that I haven't distorted anything about what he said or when he said it. So calm down, man, and start doing some thinking instead of firing off like a wild man in the jungle!
I have to tell you that I'm a bit surprised at your actions tonight. I thought we were engaged in serious Bible discussion, not the scattering of wild opinions to see where they might land. Again, I say, calm down. Cool it!
Frank
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218
The Duality -- The Father and The Son
by UnDisfellowshipped indo jehovah's witnesses believe in two gods or one god?
do they believe in a "duality"?
do jehovah's witnesses and/or the angels worship jesus christ?.
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-
fjtoth
Undisf'd,
You wrote:
Is it equally important to spend your time trying to understand the ancient genealogies found in the Bible as it is to spend time studying the Book of Revelation or the Book of Romans?
1 Timothy 1:4 (ESV): nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies, which promote speculations rather than the stewardship from God that is by faith.
I gather from this that you believe the Bible contains "myths," and that since there are "myths" in the Bible, as well as "endless genealogies," that there are some portions of the Bible we should not give devotion to, according to the way you interpret 1 Timothy 1:3, 4. Am I correct?
Frank