The Duality -- The Father and The Son

by UnDisfellowshipped 218 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped

    Do Jehovah's Witnesses believe in TWO Gods or ONE God? Do they believe in a "Duality"? Are Jehovah's Witnesses polytheists or monotheists? Do Jehovah's Witnesses and/or the angels WORSHIP Jesus Christ?

    Read below and judge for yourself:

    Sing Praises To Jehovah Songbook (1984), Song 207:

    To Whom Do We Belong? (1 Corinthians 6:20)

    1. To whom do you belong? Which God do you obey? For just the one to whom you bow Your master is; you serve him now. You cannot serve two gods; Both masters cannot share The love of your heart in its ev’ry part. To neither you’d be fair.

    2. To whom do you belong? Which God will you obey? For one is false and one is true, So make your choice; it’s up to you

    .
    _____________________________________________________

    The Watchtower, August 1, 1984, Pages 23-24:

    True, such second-century “fathers” as Ignatius of Antioch and Irenaeus of Lyons expressed ideas that could be interpreted, at the most, as belief in a two-in-one God made up of the Father and the Son. [...]

    Alexander and Athanasius, on the other hand, maintained that the three persons of the Godhead were of the same substance and, therefore, were not three Gods but one. Athanasius accused Arius of reintroducing polytheism by separating the three persons.


    _____________________________________________________

    The Watchtower, November 1, 1991, Pages 21-22:

    Search as you may, you will not find one scripture that uses the word Trinity, nor will you find any that says that Father, Son, and holy spirit are equal in all ways, such as in eternity, power, position, and wisdom. Not even a single scripture says that the Son is equal to the Father in those ways—and if there were such a scripture, it would establish not a Trinity but at most a “duality.” Nowhere does the Bible equate the holy spirit with the Father.
    _____________________________________________________

    The Watchtower, February 1, 1992, Page 22:

    Ignatius [...] And regardless of which of his writings are genuine, they show at best that Ignatius believed in a duality of God and his Son. This was certainly not a duality of equals, for the Son is always presented as lesser than God and subordinate to him. Thus, regardless of how one views the Ignatian writings, a Trinity doctrine is not to be found in them.
    _____________________________________________________

    The Watchtower, August 1, 1992, Page 20:

    The original Nicene Creed did not establish or affirm the Trinity.

    That creed, at most, equates the Son with the Father in being “of one substance.” But it does not say anything like that about the holy spirit. All it says is that “we believe . . . in the Holy Spirit.” That is not Christendom’s Trinity doctrine.

    Even the key phrase “of one substance” (ho·mo·ou´si·os) did not necessarily mean that the council believed in a numerical equality of Father and Son. The New Catholic Encyclopedia states:

    “Whether the Council intended to affirm the numerical identity of the substance of Father and Son is doubtful.”4

    Had the council meant that the Son and the Father were one numerically, it would still not be a Trinity. It would only be a two-in-one God, not three-in-one as required by the Trinity doctrine.

    _____________________________________________________

    The Watchtower, September 15, 1962, Page 554:

    So in the above-quoted Bible translations we are confronted with the expressions “God,” “divine,” “God of a sort,” “god,” and “a god.” Men who teach a triune God, a Trinity, strongly object to the translation “a god.” They say, among other things, that it means to believe in polytheism. Or they call it Unitarianism or Arianism. The Trinity is taught throughout those parts of Christendom found in Europe, the Americas and Australia, where the great majority of the 4,000,000 readers of The Watchtower live. Readers in the other parts, in Asia and Africa, come in contact with the teaching of the Trinity through the missionaries of Christendom. It becomes plain, in view of this, that we have to make sure of not only who the Word or Logos is but also who God himself is.
    _____________________________________________________

    The Watchtower, January 15, 1992, Page 23:

    Do Angels Worship Jesus?

    CERTAIN translations of Hebrews 1:6 say: “Let all the angels of God worship him [Jesus].” (King James Version; The Jerusalem Bible) The apostle Paul evidently quoted the Septuagint, which says at Psalm 97:7: “Worship Him [God] all ye His angels.”—C. Thomson.

    The Greek word pro·sky·ne´o, rendered “worship” at Hebrews 1:6, is used at Psalm 97:7 in the Septuagint for a Hebrew term, sha·chah´, meaning “to bow down.” This can be an acceptable act of respect for humans. (Genesis 23:7; 1 Samuel 24:8; 2 Kings 2:15) Or it can relate to worship of the true God or that wrongly directed to false gods.—Exodus 23:24; 24:1; 34:14; Deuteronomy 8:19.

    Usually pro·sky·ne´o given to Jesus corresponds with obeisance to kings and others. (Compare Matthew 2:2, 8; 8:2; 9:18; 15:25; 20:20 with 1 Samuel 25:23, 24; 2 Samuel 14:4-7; 1 Kings 1:16; 2 Kings 4:36, 37.) Often it is clear that obeisance is rendered to Jesus not as God but as “God’s Son” or the Messianic “Son of man.”—Matthew 14:32, 33; Luke 24:50-52; John 9:35, 38.

    Hebrews 1:6 relates to Jesus’ position under God. (Philippians 2:9-11) Here some versions render pro·sky·ne´o “pay . . . homage” (The New English Bible), “do obeisance to” (New World Translation), or “bow before” (An American Translation). If one prefers the rendering “worship,” such worship is relative, for Jesus told Satan: “It is Jehovah your God you must worship [form of pro·sky·ne´o], and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.”—Matthew 4:8-10.

    Though Psalm 97:7, which speaks about worshiping God, was applied to Christ at Hebrews 1:6, Paul had shown that the resurrected Jesus is “the reflection of [God’s] glory and the exact representation of his very being.” (Hebrews 1:1-3) So any “worship” the angels give God’s Son is relative and is directed through him to Jehovah.

    _____________________________________________________

    The Watchtower, September 1, 1984, Page 29:

    Jehovah’s Witnesses are not surprised to read in Hebrews 1:6 that the angels are invited to “do obeisance to him,” “pay him homage [The New English Bible]” or “worship him [JB].” (Compare Revelation 5:11, 12.) This in no way contradicts Matthew 4:10, where Jesus—quoting Deuteronomy—says that only Jehovah God must be worshiped. Interestingly, the Catholic Jerusalem Bible, that says “worship him” in Hebrews 1:6, refers in its marginal references to Deuteronomy 32:43 (Greek Septuagint) and Psalm 97:7, where it renders the same words, respectively, “pay him homage” and “bow down.” Why is this Catholic Bible inconsistent? Apparently for Trinitarian reasons.
    _____________________________________________________

    The Watchtower, November 15, 1970, Pages 702-704:

    Questions from Readers

    • How are we to understand Hebrews 1:6, which says that all the angels are commanded to worship Jesus?—F. C; U.S.A.

    Hebrews 1:6 reads: “But when he again brings his First-born into the inhabited earth, he says: ‘And let all God’s angels worship him.’” The writer of Hebrews is here quoting from Psalm 97:7, which reads (in part): “Bow down to him, all you gods.” The Septuagint Version, from which this writer evidently quoted, reads: “Worship Him all ye His angels.”—C. Thomson.

    These texts seem to raise a problem because they appear to conflict with Jesus’ plain statement to Satan the Devil: “It is written, ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’”—Matt 4:10.

    The Greek word rendered “worship” at Hebrews 1:6 is pro·sky·ne?o. This Greek word is also used at Psalm 97:7 in the Septuagint to translate the Hebrew sha·hhah?. What is the sense of these Hebrew and Greek terms?

    Sha·hhah? means basically “to bow down.” (Prov. 12:25) Such bowing might be done as an act of respect toward another human, as to a king (1 Sam. 24:8; 2 Sam. 24:20) or a prophet. (2 Ki. 2:15) Abraham bowed down to the Canaanite sons of Heth from whom he sought to buy a burial place. (Gen. 23:7) Isaac’s blessing on Jacob called for national groups and Jacob’s own “brothers” to bow down to him.—Gen. 27:29; compare 49:8.

    From the above examples it is clear that this Hebrew term of itself does not necessarily have a religious sense or signify worship. Nevertheless, in a large number of cases it is used in connection with worship, either of the true God (Ex. 24:1; Ps. 95:6) or of false gods—Deut. 4:19; 8:19.

    Bowing down to humans as an act of respect was admissible, but bowing to anyone other than Jehovah as a deity was prohibited by God. (Ex. 23:24; 34:14) Similarly, the worshipful bowing down to religious images or to any created thing was positively condemned. (Ex. 20:4, 5; Lev. 26:1; Deut. 4:15-19) Thus, in the Hebrew Scriptures, when certain of Jehovah’s servants prostrated themselves before angels, they only did so as recognizing that these were God’s representatives, not as rendering obeisance to them as deities.—Josh. 5:13-15; Gen. 18:1-3.

    The Greek pro·sky·ne?o corresponds closely with the Hebrew sha·hhah? as to conveying the thought of both obeisance to creatures and worship to God or a deity. While the manner of expressing the obeisance is perhaps not so prominent in pro·sky·ne?o as in sha·hhah?, where the Hebrew term graphically conveys the thought of prostration or bowing down, some lexicographers suggest that originally the Greek term did emphatically portray this idea.

    As with the Hebrew term, the context must be considered to determine whether pro·sky·ne?o refers to obeisance solely in the form of deep respect or obeisance in the form of religious worship. Where reference is directly to God (John 4:20-24; 1 Cor. 14:25) or to false gods and their idols (Acts 7:43; Rev. 9:20), it is evident that the obeisance goes beyond that acceptably or customarily rendered to men and enters the field of worship. So, too, where the object of the obeisance is left unstated, its being directed to God being understood. (John 12:20; Acts 8:27; Heb. 11:21) On the other hand, the action of those of the “synagogue of Satan” who are made to “come and do obeisance” before the feet of Christians is clearly not worship.—Rev. 3:9.

    Obeisance to a human king is found in Jesus’ illustration at Matthew 18:26. It is also evident that this was the kind of obeisance the astrologers rendered to the child Jesus, “born king of the Jews,” and also that Herod professed interest in expressing, and that the soldiers mockingly rendered to Jesus before his impalement. They clearly did not view Jesus as God or as a deity.—Matt. 2:2, 8; Mark 15:19.

    While some translators use the word “worship” in the majority of cases where pro·sky·ne?o describes persons’ actions toward Jesus, the evidence does not warrant one’s reading too much into this rendering. Rather, the circumstances that evoked the obeisance correspond very closely with those producing obeisance to the earlier prophets and kings. (Compare Matthew 8:2; 9:18; 15:25; 20:20 with 1 Samuel 25:23, 24; 2 Samuel 14:4-7; 1 Kings 1:16; 2 Kings 4:36, 37.) The very expressions of those involved often reveal that, while they clearly recognized Jesus as God’s representative, they rendered obeisance to him, not as to God or a deity, but as “God’s Son,” the foretold “Son of man,” the Messiah with divine authority.—Matt. 14:32, 33; 28:5-10, 16-18; Luke 24:50-52; John 9:35, 38.

    While earlier prophets and also angels had accepted obeisance, Peter stopped Cornelius from rendering such to him. And the angel (or angels) of John’s vision twice stopped John from doing so, referring to himself as a “fellow slave” and concluding with the exhortation to “worship God.”—Acts 10:25, 26; Rev. 19:10; 22:8, 9.

    Evidently Christ’s coming had brought in new relationships affecting standards of conduct toward others of God’s servants. He taught his disciples that “one is your teacher, whereas all you are brothers . . . your Leader is one, the Christ.” (Matt. 23:8-12) For it was in him that the prophetic figures and types found their fulfillment, even as the angel told John that “the bearing witness to Jesus is what inspires prophesying.” (Rev. 19:10) Jesus was David’s Lord, the greater than Solomon, the prophet greater than Moses. (Luke 20:41-43; Matt. 12:42; Acts 3:19-24) The obeisance rendered those men prefigured that due Christ. Peter therefore rightly refused to let Cornelius make too much of him.

    So, too, John, by virtue of having been declared righteous or justified by God as an anointed Christian, called to be a heavenly son of God and a member of his Son’s kingdom, was in a different relationship to the angel(s) of the revelation than were the Israelites to whom angels earlier appeared. As the apostle Paul had written: “Do you not know that we shall judge angels?” (1 Cor. 6:3) The angel(s) evidently recognized this change of relationship when rejecting John’s obeisance.

    On the other hand, Christ Jesus has been exalted by his Father to a position second only to God, so that “in the name of Jesus every knee should bend of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground, and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.”—Phil. 2:9-11; compare Daniel 7:13, 14, 27.

    In view of all this, how are we to understand Hebrews 1:6, which shows that even the angels render “worship” to the resurrected Jesus Christ? While many translations of this text render pro·sky·néo as “worship,” some render it by such expressions as “bow before” (The Bible—An American Translation) and “pay homage” (The New English Bible). No matter what English term is used, the original Greek remains the same and the understanding of what it is that the angels render to Christ must accord with the rest of the Scriptures.

    If the rendering “worship” is preferred, then it must be understood that such “worship” is only of a relative kind. For Jesus himself emphatically stated to Satan that “it is Jehovah your God you must worship [form of pro·sky·ne?o], and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.” (Matt. 4:8-10; Luke 4:7, 8) True, Psalm 97, which the apostle evidently quotes at Hebrews 1:6, refers to Jehovah God as the object of the ‘bowing down,’ and still this text was applied to Christ Jesus. (Ps. 97:1, 7) However, the apostle previously had shown that the resurrected Christ became the “reflection of [God’s] glory and the exact representation of his very being.” (Heb. 1:1-3) Hence, if what we understand as “worship” is apparently directed to the Son by angels, it is in reality being directed through him to Jehovah God, the Sovereign Ruler, “the One who made the heaven and the earth and sea and fountains of waters.”—Rev. 14:7; 4:10, 11; 7:11, 12; 11:16, 17; compare 1 Chronicles 29:20; Revelation 5:13, 14.

    On the other hand, the renderings “bow before” and “pay homage” (instead of “worship”) are in no way out of harmony with the original language, either the Hebrew of Psalm 97:7 or the Greek of Hebrews 1:6, for such translations convey the basic sense of both sha·hhah? and pro·sky·neo.

  • Star Moore
    Star Moore

    Hello there:

    JW's think God is the father and Jesus is actually a false God.

    Was gonna say, 'duality' was the perfect word to use. As they are like the 'dynamic duo', Batman. Jesus does nothing alone without God's holy spirit. So when you are looking at him, you are looking at the father.

  • drew sagan
    drew sagan

    Not to get some argument going about the Trinity and all that (it's probablly coming anyway), but I have to personally admit something. After I started to come out of JWs I still fought the idea of the Trinity. I was still fighting the idea not to many months ago, but then something changed in me. I actually started to consider the Bible. All this time I was stuck on the theology and proof texts that I didn't allow myself to look at it from any other angle. Once I stepped outside of that thinking I was able to see logic in the trinity. Now I see more logic in trinitarian thinking, and much less logic in unitarian. It all changed when I stopped getting emotional abuot the debate, and just was lead by scripture.

  • bebu
    bebu
    So any “worship” the angels give God’s Son is relative and is directed through him to Jehovah.

    And wouldn't that work the same way with humans, then? If not, why not?

    bebu

    Edited to clarify: I do think that Jesus is an extension/interface of the Father, and not just a created agent/angel that helps the Father out.

    Drew, thanks for sharing that thought. I think the willingness to search and follow God, wherever it leads, is a type of faith in His goodwill.

  • BCZAR2ME
    BCZAR2ME

    Do you ask in earnest? Or are you only trying to prove a point?

    bczar

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped

    BCZAR2ME said:

    Do you ask in earnest? Or are you only trying to prove a point?

    Those are sincere, legitimate questions for any Jehovah's Witnesses to consider.

    I asked those questions because:

    1) Somewhere out there a JW might read them and start to think for himself.

    2) I would like to see how a JW would answer those questions (although I doubt any JW is going to reply on this thread)

    3) Yes, I was making a point, thus I posted those quotes from the Watchtower Society.

  • Kenneson
    Kenneson

    The whole New Testament is about Jesus. His followers are called Christians. That to me speaks volumes. The Watchtower, on the other hand, does everything in its power to detract from Him. And it has denigrated the Holy Spirit to the point of making Him devoid of Personhood. So, it doesn't have a Trinity, not even a duality, but a unitary system.

  • JosephMalik
    JosephMalik

    Undisfellowshipped,

    No matter now often this matter of God is discussed here on this forum it always seems to come back like a bad penny. Yet it is so simple and easy to understand one wonders why few seem to understand it.

    The word God in scripture is not an identification reserved for the Supreme Being. Not only is the Supreme Being called God in this book but Moses, the Judges and Kings of Israel, and Satan as well as others can be and are rightfully called God. This does not make multiple Supreme Being’s or God’s the way you combine the persons called God under discussion. Yes Jesus is called God in some text’s yet Jesus is not our Supreme Being also called God. Why? Because God is simply a designation for someone in charge of others. God the word has multiple application and even Strong’s identifies such use in scripture along with the many times and ways it is translated. Notice:

    In Hebrew: AV-God 2346, god 244, judge 5, GOD 1, goddess 2, great 2, mighty 2, angels 1, exceeding 1, God-ward + 04136 1, godly 1; 2606

    1) (plural)
    1a) rulers, judges
    1b) divine ones
    1c) angels
    1d) gods
    2) (plural intensive-singular meaning)
    2a) god, goddess
    2b) godlike one
    2c) works or special possessions of God
    2d) the (true) God
    2e) God

    In Greek: AV-God 1320, god 13, godly 3, God-ward + 4214 2, misc 5; 1343

    1) a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities
    2) the Godhead, trinity
    2a) God the Father, the first person in the trinity
    2b) Christ, the second person of the trinity
    2c) Holy Spirit, the third person in the trinity
    3) spoken of the only and true God
    3a) refers to the things of God
    3b) his counsels, interests, things due to him
    4) whatever can in any respect be likened unto God, or resemble him in any way
    4a) God’s representative or viceregent
    4a1) of magistrates and judges

    Jesus is our God by virtue of the fact that He was appointed or authorized by God our Supreme Being to create humankind and later serve as it’s redeemer and Savior. It is an appointed position like an Apostle which He also is. Now since there is no difference in the word itself when put down on paper then how do we know the difference? Adam was the Son of God and we do not confuse Adam with God do we? Then we should not confuse Jesus another Son of God with God. We simply should have the common sense to grasp that a Son is a separate and distinct person and Being in his own right. We should not make such a Son the same God as the God this Son may at times be with.

    Joseph

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped

    Joseph Malik,

    Long time, no see. (Well, it's my fault. I've been gone from this website for a loooong time, too long. But now I'm back).

    You said:

    No matter now often this matter of God is discussed here on this forum it always seems to come back like a bad penny. Yet it is so simple and easy to understand one wonders why few seem to understand it.

    I agree. It is pretty simple once the Holy Spirit has enlightened a person's mind to the truth.

    You said:

    The word God in scripture is not an identification reserved for the Supreme Being. Not only is the Supreme Being called God in this book but Moses, the Judges and Kings of Israel, and Satan as well as others can be and are rightfully called God.

    Not entirely correct. Where is a human king (other than Jesus) ever called "God"? The only Verse you may be using is Psalm 45:6. However, the writer of Hebrews applied this directly to JESUS (Hebrews 1:8), and the Bible never applies it to anyone else. It is a Messianic Psalm. In fact, that is why the writer of Hebrews quoted that Verse, to prove that Jesus is superior to the angels because The Father calls Jesus God!

    True, the Bible does call human judges gods because they were representatives/spokesmen of God. It also calls Satan a "god" because he rules the world and because people worship him (knowingly or unknowingly).

    In the Hebrew Scriptures, angels are even called "elohim" at Psalm 8:5, however, the inspired writer of Hebrews quoted this verse as "angels" instead of "gods."

    With all that said and acknowledged, this really doesn't change anything about my beliefs. I already knew and acknowledged all of this. It doesn't contradict any of my beliefs.

    As regards whether "GOD" or "ELOHIM" was used exclusively as a Name for God, you have already shown that it has been used for others besides God, yet, "GOD" was used as a title/name for Jehovah around 2,600 times in the Old Testament, and around 1,100 times in the New Testament, so it is a pretty fair assumption that this title/name, in the minds of the Jews and Christians, eventually began to stand for Jehovah alone.

    Consider these Verses from Isaiah:

    Isaiah 44:6 (ESV): Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: "I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god.

    Isaiah 44:8 (ESV): Fear not, nor be afraid; have I not told you from of old and declared it? And you are my witnesses! Is there a God besides me? There is no Rock; I know not any."

    Isaiah 37:16 (ESV): "O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, who is enthroned above the cherubim, you are the God, you alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; you have made heaven and earth.

    Isaiah 45:21-22 (ESV): Declare and present your case; let them take counsel together! Who told this long ago? Who declared it of old? Was it not I, the LORD? And there is no other god besides me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none besides me. "Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other.

    So, at least by Isaiah's time, in the minds of the Jews, the word "GOD" did begin to be reserved for Jehovah alone.

    You see, the main thing that you fail to realize, which I have told you several times before (just look at the "Michael the Archangel" debate we had a couple of years back), is that the Bible clearly says that there are only TWO TYPES OF GODS:

    1:) The One True God by Nature (and by Essence). The One who is truly God because of who He is and what attributes He has.
    and
    2): So-called "gods" who are NOT God by nature. They can be properly called "gods" but they are NOT gods by their nature.

    The Apostle Paul taught this very clearly:

    1 Corinthians 8:4-6 (ESV): Therefore, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that "an idol has no real existence," and that "there is no God but one." For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth--as indeed there are many "gods" and many "lords"-- yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

    Galatians 4:8 (ESV): Formerly, when you did not know God, you were enslaved to those that by nature are not gods.

    Romans 1:20 (ESV): For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

    Acts 17:29 (ESV): Being then God's offspring, we ought not to think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and imagination of man.

    The Apostle Paul taught that there is only the True God, and then there are the so-called "gods" and "lords." Paul SEPARATED Jesus from the so-called "gods!" Jesus is NOT one of the so-called "gods," therefore, the only other category left is THE ONE TRUE GOD.

    According to the Bible you CANNOT have TWO True Gods by Nature -- ONLY ONE.

    Also, Paul said that Jesus was the True God by Nature:

    Colossians 2:9 (ESV): For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,

    Philippians 2:6-8 (ESV): who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

    Let me ask you a question. When Philippians 2:6-8 says Jesus was in "human FORM" and in "the FORM of a servant," didn't that mean that Jesus truly was a Human? If so, then wouldn't that mean Jesus is truly God because Philippians 2:6 says Jesus exists in the FORM of God?

    Hebrews 1:3 (ESV): He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

    You said:

    This does not make multiple Supreme Being’s or God’s the way you combine the persons called God under discussion. Yes Jesus is called God in some text’s yet Jesus is not our Supreme Being also called God. Why? Because God is simply a designation for someone in charge of others. God the word has multiple application and even Strong’s identifies such use in scripture along with the many times and ways it is translated.

    The Trinitarian belief that Jesus is God Almighty is not based merely on a few texts which call Him "God." It is based on numerous Scriptures, which prove that Jesus has all of the attributes, powers, qualities, rights, privileges, and authority that The Father has (which are exclusive to God), and that the Bible shows that everything that The Father has, The Son also has, and that The Father shares His own glory with His Son (see Isaiah 42:8), and that all of the same honor, glory, praise, thanks, and worship given to The Father must also be given to The Son, as God The Father Himself commands us (See John 5:22-23, Hebrews 1:6, and Philippians, 2:5-11).

    By the time of Isaiah, among the Jews, the word "GOD" was not used merely for "someone in charge of others." See the Scriptures above.

    Also, in the days of the Pharisees, for a person to claim to be "GOD" was blasphemy, a sin punishable by stoning.

    And, the Apostle Paul used the word "god" to refer to things that are WORSHIPED. (See 1 Corinthians 8:5).

    You said:

    Jesus is our God by virtue of the fact that He was appointed or authorized by God our Supreme Being to create humankind and later serve as it’s redeemer and Savior.

    Then, by your own words you are a polytheist who follows TWO gods. Jesus Himself said this:

    Matthew 6:24 (ESV): "No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. [...]

    Jesus also said the following statements about God:

    Mark 12:29-34 (ESV): Jesus answered, "The most important is, 'Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.' The second is this: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these." And the scribe said to him, "You are right, Teacher. You have truly said that he is one, and there is no other besides him.And to love him with all the heart and with all the understanding and with all the strength, and to love one's neighbor as oneself, is much more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices." And when Jesus saw that he answered wisely, he said to him, "You are not far from the kingdom of God." And after that no one dared to ask him any more questions.

    Matthew 4:10 (ESV): Then Jesus said to him, [...] For it is written, "'You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.'"

    But then look what Jesus said about Himself:

    Luke 14:26 (ESV): "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple.

    John 5:23 (ESV): that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.

    Peter also wrote this:

    1 Peter 3:15 (ESV): but in your hearts regard Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you;

    How can a person love The Father (One God) with all his heart, all his soul, all his mind, and all his strength, while at the same time loving The Son (a 2nd lesser god according to you) with such a love that it makes your love for your family look like hatred in comparison, and how can you honor this 2nd lesser god to the same degree that you honor the first God? Your heart's love would end up being DIVIDED just as Jesus said in Matthew 6:24.

    Also, compare Matthew 4:10, where Jesus said you must ONLY worship and serve God, with Hebrews 1:6 where The Father commands all angels to worship The Son.

    The consistent theme of the Old and New Testaments is that there is only One True God by Nature, only One God who should be served and worshiped. (See 1 Cor. 8:6; Ephesians 4:6; 1 Timothy 2:5; Romans 3:30; Galatians 3:20; James 2:19; John 17:3)

    Yet the Bible also tells us that Jesus is God who must be served, worshiped, and loved with everything that you are. The Bible says that you must live for Jesus and that everything you do or say should be done for Him.

    You said:

    It is an appointed position like an Apostle which He also is. Now since there is no difference in the word itself when put down on paper then how do we know the difference? Adam was the Son of God and we do not confuse Adam with God do we? Then we should not confuse Jesus another Son of God with God. We simply should have the common sense to grasp that a Son is a separate and distinct person and Being in his own right. We should not make such a Son the same God as the God this Son may at times be with.

    There is one of your problems. You are trying to understand God by using "common sense." True, Christians should definitely use common sense. But how can a finite human ever hope to understand the Nature and Being of God by using common sense. We're talking about an INFINITE God who never had a beginning, and will never have an end, Who is Omnipresent, Omniscient, and Omnipotent, and Who created all things. Try figuring all that out with your "common sense."

    And, just because you can't see how God could be more than one Person by using your "common sense," it must not be true, irregardless of what the Bible teaches??

    The only things that we know about God are the things He has revealed in creation and in His Word.

  • JosephMalik
    JosephMalik
    You said:

    The word God in scripture is not an identification reserved for the Supreme Being. Not only is the Supreme Being called God in this book but Moses, the Judges and Kings of Israel, and Satan as well as others can be and are rightfully called God.

    Not entirely correct. Where is a human king (other than Jesus) ever called "God"? The only Verse you may be using is Psalm 45:6. However, the writer of Hebrews applied this directly to JESUS (Hebrews 1:8), and the Bible never applies it to anyone else. It is a Messianic Psalm. In fact, that is why the writer of Hebrews quoted that Verse, to prove that Jesus is superior to the angels because The Father calls Jesus God!

    Undisfellowshipped,

    Sorry, not only is this correct but this is also the reason why this Psalm can be applied to Jesus who would continue such rule in the line of David. It had just as much meaning to such God's then as it does now. The Kings of Israel were God to Israel and held in high esteem as being blessed by God. The Psalm begins in this way.

    My heart is inditing a good matter: I speak of the things which I have made touching the king: my tongue is the pen of a ready writer.

    This is not prophecy but fact and such facts apply also to Jesus as in Hebrews 1:8 where such application is made. Our Lord will continue as such a God and King in the same way they did back then in an earthly Kingdom to which He will return here in the flesh to rule.

    You said: In fact, that is why the writer of Hebrews quoted that Verse, to prove that Jesus is superior to the angels because The Father calls Jesus God!

    And who do you think these angels being discussed really are? The Kings now under discussion who are called God in the Psalm and Hebrews. They were the messengers or angels of the covenant then. Now when our Lord takes their place He will be superior to such angels in this earthly Kingdom where many of them will also live by virtue of the resurrection.

    In other verses such as Corinthians you quoted where God is used specifically for the Supreme Being and not function or position as in the Psalm and Hebrews we have a totally different context and under such circumstances there is but one God. Much the same thing happens with the word angels or messengers. The word may be the same in both cases but the meaning is quite different and often elusive as shown here.

    Joseph

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit