Posts by fjtoth

25

Millerite Adventism and Fred Franz

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

a gem from barbara anderson:.

http://www.freeminds.org/women/barbara_anderson.htm.

millerite adventism and fred franz.

fjtoth

I used to listen to C T Russell's voice on the Photo-Drama recordings. It was remarkable how much Russell and Franz sounded alike in voice quality and manner of speaking. To me, they sounded like one and the same person.

As to Franz telling someone to "shut up," I give him the benefit of the doubt. As I remember him -- walking with him, eating meals with him at Bethel and in private homes, and transporting him to the airport and to distant Kingdom Halls -- I found him to be a gentle person who was respectful of others. I also saw him show unusual patience with nut-cases and persons with eccentric personalities. Believe what we will about him otherwise, I simply can't believe that he told somebody to "shut up," just because somebody makes that claim without any witnesses to verify that it happened.

Frank

9

7th Day Adventists & J-Dubs

by Black Man in

jw
friends

can we consolidate a comprehensive thread on what beliefs the dubs ripped off, ahem co-opted from the adventists.

i believe the birthdays and some of the end-times speculation came from them.

i've been interested in seeing how much of an influence they have been.

fjtoth

JWs didn't descend from the 7th-Day Adventists. The similarities between 7th-Days, the JWs and the Worldwide COG came from the Second Adventists.

"Looking back to 1871, we see that many of our company were what are known as Second Adventists."--Zion's Watch Tower, February 1881.

297

BETHELITES - Whatever Became of?

by Black Man in

jw
friends

i often times wonder what happened to certain bethelites that i ran around with during my 1990s tenure there.

while there are still a few left there, the greater majority of them aren't there for various reasons (marriage, disillusionment, left the borg, etc).

a couple of cats i wonder about - there was one brother who i believe was from kansas, who got his fingers cut off in a printing press.

fjtoth

Hi horrible life,

Yep, Gary was as you described. I'm pretty sure he was still there at the end of '85. But I was having a lot of trials and tribulation at that time, with my wife being sick and all, so my brain is a bit fuzzy about most other things of that time.

Frank
http://formerjw.homestead.com

297

BETHELITES - Whatever Became of?

by Black Man in

jw
friends

i often times wonder what happened to certain bethelites that i ran around with during my 1990s tenure there.

while there are still a few left there, the greater majority of them aren't there for various reasons (marriage, disillusionment, left the borg, etc).

a couple of cats i wonder about - there was one brother who i believe was from kansas, who got his fingers cut off in a printing press.

fjtoth

Black Man,

No, I'm not related to Roger Toth, nor to his cousin Walter Toth whose wife's name is Paula (both of them quite tall). I think there was another couple with the Toth name that went through Gilead and ended up in Ecuador, but I can't remember their names. All of them were related and came into Bethel around the same time. All were from the Detroit area, but I was from New Jersey. And yes, I remember Tom Combs too, and his wife Carol. Tom was one I most admired because he was cheerful, outgoing and friendly to everybody, never critical of anybody but himself, as I can remember.

Ninja,

The woman in the motorized cart was probably Ann Glass, wife of Gilead instructor Ulysses. She was another Toth, not related to me or to the others mentioned above.

Frank
http://formerjw.homestead.com

PS: There was also a Toth I heard about before I went to Bethel. He was from Rhode Island, I believe, and had been a good friend of Milton Henschel. He was notorious because he had walked out of the organization sometime in the 1940's or 1950's.

297

BETHELITES - Whatever Became of?

by Black Man in

jw
friends

i often times wonder what happened to certain bethelites that i ran around with during my 1990s tenure there.

while there are still a few left there, the greater majority of them aren't there for various reasons (marriage, disillusionment, left the borg, etc).

a couple of cats i wonder about - there was one brother who i believe was from kansas, who got his fingers cut off in a printing press.

fjtoth

Common mind,

Good catch! I was trying to remember a guy who looked like Denzel, and his name just wouldn't come to me. So I jotted down Denzel's name in hopes that the correct name would pop into my brain before hitting the submit button. Well, it didn't, and I still can't remember the guy's name. Maybe it'll come to me after I get some sleep.

Thanks,

Frank

297

BETHELITES - Whatever Became of?

by Black Man in

jw
friends

i often times wonder what happened to certain bethelites that i ran around with during my 1990s tenure there.

while there are still a few left there, the greater majority of them aren't there for various reasons (marriage, disillusionment, left the borg, etc).

a couple of cats i wonder about - there was one brother who i believe was from kansas, who got his fingers cut off in a printing press.

fjtoth

Wow, these names bring back lots of memories! I remember the following, mentioned above, pretty well:

Ciro and Lolli Aulicino, Jeff Barrons, Richard Chamberlain, Kelly Cook, Leroy Gaiters, Ed Harop, ,Jerry Jackson, Tom Jefferson, Ed Kostacheck, Terry Lafferty, Steve Lupo, Larry Mainers, Bruce Millette, Gill Nazaroff, Anselm Packnett, Joel Reed, Bob Schilling, Andy Seabury, Ray Spatz, Richard Tabuchi, Wayne Turner, Ralph and Virginia Walls, Patrick Ware, Lee Waters, Ernie Watts, Brian Woods, Claude Woodward, and Howard and Bena Zenke.

Also,

Fred Curry (We were in the same congregation in Jackson Heights.)

Gary Davis (We worked together in the shipping office.)

Bob and Alice Deaton (Alice was one of my wife's [Dianne] good friends.)

Mark Nevejans (Mark left JWs at the time he left Bkln Bethel, to the great disappointment of his mother and younger brothers)

Warren and Dorothy Weil (Dorothy was one of my wife's best friends. I expressed a few of my doubts to Warren, and he turned me in. I got a call from the gov. body office [David Sinclair]. Fortunately I remembered that Fred Franz had made comments in the sauna that stirred up the questions I raised. The sauna was located just across from my room in the 119 building.)

Anybody here remember the following?

Eric and Elfriede Anderson, Roberta Anderson, Russell Armacost, Fred Barnes, Walter Bennett, Tom and Gloria Cabeen, Cal and Zelda Chyke, Tom Combs, Joe Eames, Charlie Fekel, Doug Gielenfeldt, Gene Glazebrook, George Hannan, Klaus Jensen, Karl Kramer, Joe Luebeck, Warren and Theresa Manns, Bill McInnis, Harry and Rose Peloyan, Keith Perkins, Bill Peterson, Natheer Salih, Mike Siemens, Mike Smilnak, David Smith, -- Ahh! The names keep on a-comin'!

I was in Brooklyn part-time from June 1955 to July 1958 and then full-time up to December 1985 when I got transferred to north of the border. I left Canada Bethel and JWs in June 1994.

Frank Toth
http://formerjw.homestead.com

119

Anyone Else from Canada?

by Miss 8572 in

i'm really intrigued by that fact that i may know some of you and yet not know that i know you.

i just want to know how many people from canada are here.

if you don't mind and don't care about posting your province (cause i'm too timid to) we could all get an idea of just how many canucks are really out there.

fjtoth

I'm in Mississauga, Ontario.

Sure is nice to see there are so many good neighbors in the Toronto area!

26

Who is ?The Man of Lawlessness??

by Love_Truth in

who is ?the man of lawlessness??.

note: i?d like to ask that only those who have an interest in the bible, it?s interpretation, and believe it is at least partially inspired of god respond to this:.

i?ve always been interested in this scripture in 2 thessalonians 2:3-12 (niv): .

fjtoth

I've posted my answer here:

http://formerjw.homestead.com/lawless.html

29

Growth and Decline in churches incl. JWs

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

yearbook of churches issues 75th editionhttp://www.wfn.org/2007/03/msg00069.html.

from "ncc news" <[email protected]>.

date mon, 05 mar 2007 15:00:19 -0500. .

fjtoth

moggy lover,

A local elder became an SDA, and evidently took much of the local congrgation with him. He subsequently wrote a booklet and edited a magazine that compared growth figures for the two groups.

Assurances were conveyed to us by the country COs that we were in reality having attendances higher than them. It really became competitive at that time.

I'm interested in this. From as far back as I can remember -- going back to the 1950s -- I never heard mention at Brooklyn Bethel of any competition between JWs and SDAs. SDAs have always outnumbered JWs worldwide. In fact, SDA membership has always been more than JW Memorial attendance. Do you happen to remember the name of the local elder? Or the name of his booklet or magazine? I'd like to do some checking into this.

Frank

29

Growth and Decline in churches incl. JWs

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

yearbook of churches issues 75th editionhttp://www.wfn.org/2007/03/msg00069.html.

from "ncc news" <[email protected]>.

date mon, 05 mar 2007 15:00:19 -0500. .

fjtoth

moggy lover:

Incidently, DP, can you tell us, only for statistical data, the numbers for the SDAs. The WTS often compared themselves to the SDAs and contrived to show the divine origins for their growth by comparing themselves to the SDAs

I spent most of 50 years at Bethel (and neighborhood) and never heard mention of the SDA membership. What is the source of your claim that the WTS "often compared themselves to the SDAs"? I did notice that a comparison was made in a Time or Newsweek article in the 1980's, I believe, but I never heard of it from any JW.

Frank